General RAAM Gameplay discussion

#201

That’s why we have different terms to mean different things (i.e. cancel vs. combo), and lots of resources with a couple minutes on Google, and the indicator on the side of the screen that tells you when something(s) was a combo, and how many hits of comboing it was.

Mortal Kombat is a terrible example of correct usage of staple concepts within the FG genre. In Mortal Kombat, a ‘Kombo Move’ is a string of buttons that may or may not actually combo together, despite the game having a commonplace combo system, complete with combo-counting HUD indicator. It doesn’t make sense, and it leads noobs to thinking that any sequence of moves performed in succession is a combo, despite the game itself visually acknowledging that it most certainly is not. Also, there’s no crossups in MK. That’s a sidebar, but still relevant to how MK sets up noobs to the genre for failure everywhere outside of their franchise.

Why aren’t you using the auto-block function to practice combos, where the dummy will block automatically upon exiting hitstun? With that feature, you can practice combos and know definitively whether or not things combo.

Apart from being lied to by NRS, I don’t think terminology has TOO much to do with why noobs to FGs don’t stick around. This does kind of remind me of a discussion around here about whether or not we should call throws and command grabs by the same term - and this is a prime example of why we should not. Because referring to different things as one and the same thing is wrong, and an invitation to disastrous confusion.

ON TOPIC:
Has anyone stepped out the frames on his dash/backdash/FADC yet? Methinks those numbers would help really kick the door down on figuring out the dirtier stuff. I’m loving how traditional of a grappler he is though.

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#202

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/15108135.jpg

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#203

To be clear:

combo: A series of attacks that the opponent cannot block if they are hit by the first attack. They are guaranteed damage in all games, except for combo breaker-type mechanics (KI, GG burst, etc).

“X combos into Y”: If you hit with X, doing Y results in a combo (ie, unblockable).

block string: A series of attacks that, if your opponent blocks the first hit, they must block the rest. Basically, there are no “gaps” between the blocked hits that give the defender a chance to reversal out. You can think about this like a “combo on block” if you want. In S2, Cinder doing jab jab jab xx shadow fission was a block string; no opportunity to stop blocking once you blocked the first jab. Some people use this term a little more loosely and just call any series of blocked attacks a block string, even if there are gaps, and then use the term “true block string” to mean no gaps at all.

Example: Raam doing stand MP xx medium stab is not a “true block string”. If Jago blocks the stand MP, there is a gap in between the hits where Jago can do a DP and hit Raam before medium stab comes out.

In some games, there might be game-specific systems in place to avoid block strings (shadow counters in KI, v-reversal in SFV, etc). But the definition still applies.

7 Likes
#204

Because auto-block always seemed to be more like RANDOM to me. Sometimes, they block, sometimes they don’t. What I actually did was perform the attack, followed by the opener, but before I hit with the opener, I siwtched the block settings to block high to see if the AI could block it in time. In almost every instance, with the exception of the s.HK stagger, the AI could do so.

#205

Auto-block means the CPU tries to block the instant it leaves hit stun. It will never block the first hit in neutral, and then it will “hold back” during the combo. If you drop your combo in any way, the CPU blocks (for about 1 second). If you do a hit that doesn’t combo during this 1 second, the CPU blocks it. Then, after that second, it “lets go of block” so you can repeat the process.

Auto-block can be used to figure out what’s a combo and what isn’t.

8 Likes
#206

My main problem with Raam is that now people are getting used to the match up they are running away throwing projectiles (which is fine I don’t mind it’s what you should do) but the problem is.

I work my way in using Kryll shield soaking up the projectiles and gaining lots of meter. This meter I gain is great and all, but it doesn’t help Raam get in. unless i’m missing something, none of Raams shadow moves have special properties that help him get in. In fact what happens is while i’m using Kryll shield to get in my opponent is also gaining a lot of meter that actually serves him better as it gives him the tools to beat the Kryll shield and all kryll moves.

Smart players now are running throwing projectiles untill they have bar and by the time you get almost into range throw another projectile you Kryll move they shadow move you eat it and maybe full combo, they run rince repeat, this is a problem.

So my solution to this which I think would help Raam in his unfavourable match ups and a little in his bad match ups would be to instead of Raam gaining extra meter soaking up hits with kryll shield, the opponent doesn’t gain any or very little meter. Personally I think that this would be better for Raam and make using Kryll shield a far better tool for Raam to try and move in on the opponent, I personally would much prefer this.

It just seems odd to me that as your using a tool to get in which is slow paced and isn’t easy, you are giving the opponent the tool to counter it by the time you get near enough to them.

Just my opinion on playing Raam since he dropped and an idea that in my own mind would help him out a little without changing him much.

#207

The general idea for a true grappler is that it should be difficult for him to get in against an opponent with the tools play a ranged game and the wisdom to use them. It should be difficult to get in on someone playing a legit zoning/runaway game, because Raam’s tools once he does get in are so potent.

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#208

Yeah I know. Did you read my whole post? My suggestion isn’t to make it easier to get in as such, it’s so that your tool to get in doesn’t get completely countered whilst trying to do so. Basically don’t give the opponent the complete counter automatically whilst using your correct tool to get in.

I have nothing against being zoned and running away, playing against Raam with other characters I do the same. All i’m saying is take Raams meter gain while using Kryll shield away and instead give it a property of the opponent not gaining meter instead, or less meter.

#209

I did read your whole post. My issue is that the only logical conclusion to any zoning scenario by a non-teleporting character is that Raam slowly walks them down to the corner, where he is (by far) at his most dangerous, and where the opponent will now have no options against any further attempts to close space, and will have to sit there, trapped against the wall that is Raam, with very little recourse in most situations. I just don’t personally think it would be a good balancing decision.

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#210

Yeah, I agree with everything you said.

Do you think then changing gaining more meter from krill shield to opponent not gaining it would change any of that? In my mind it would just make it so that they had slightly less meter to shadow through your krill as often whilst trying to move in???

#211

I actually think the opponent having the meter to blow through kryll shield is an acceptable tradeoff for Raam having a tool that completely ignores projectiles of the non-shadow variety. Simple truth is that if someone is truly dedicated to hardcore zoning in KI, they will generally run out of room against a character like Raam pretty quickly (exceptions being Fulgore with his teleport and Maya with her generally ridiculous mobility). Characters usually do have to do something close ranged to mount the more potent aspects of their offense, or else have to commit to things that are pretty reactable (think Glacius shatter or Kan scarabs/command grab). And against Raam (who’s also building meter with his krill absorbs), doing almost anything that results in you being near him is punishable and leads to his vortex.

If the opponent is dedicated to hardcore zoning, then it seems to me that once Raam walks him down, the game should be shifting into an uneasy neutral where each side is trying to bait the other into doing something they can punish. Raam wants you to waste your meter, walk into his normals, or to try something dangerous that he can punish like an attempted jump-out or blocked wind kick. The defender wants Raam to charge at him so that he can shadow him in the face, and in general simply wants out. Being a Hisako player, I actually consider Raam to be in the stronger position here (by how much depends on character of course), because there really is a lot to be said about having an opponent feeling terrified and trapped by you.

The opponent being afraid of Raam doesn’t mean Raam gets to just go in and start his game though. As a true grappler, a large portion of him being played well I think will come down to being patient in these situations, punishing the opponent with Raam’s great buttons and generally trying to harass him into making poor decisions. I think the opponent having meter here makes the game more interesting, because it gives the defender a legitimate option if Raam makes a poor decision about how to apply his positioning advantage.

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#212

Again I do agree with most of if not all of what you say.

I just think that gaining meter from krill shield helps Raam in his already good match ups and does very little for him in his bad match ups. If it was they way I purposed this would be reversed imo. I don’t think it would change much, the opponent would still gain meter just not as much when Raam uses krill shield, giving a Raam player extra reason to use it. I stopped using it completely in a match up against a good player last night as it was more of a benefit to him than me.

To be clear i’m not saying Raam is bad or demanding buffs or anything like that. Or moaning about people zoning and playing correctly against Raam!!!

It’s just an idea I had and thought I would put the idea out there for discussion :wink:

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#213

I had a match last night were a guy was talking through the head set to whomever was in his living room and complaining that I was running away…I was Omen, he was Raam.

SO I could since his frustration but here is my thoughts on it…why do people get upset when you use the tools you have? What idiot would fight Raam toe to toe with a character like Omen or KanRa? I never understood why people get upset because you dont fight there way?

I waited for him to Kryl rush and I hit him with the shadow opener and then I backed off until he got restless again and repeat.

Ive had THunder players act the same way. Note to grapplers… dont get mad because we aren’t dumb enough to stand in front of your 25% damage shadow command grab and all your other unblockable grabs. We figured out how to avoid that…no you figure out how to avoid zoning.

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#214

Because it’s more fun to win :smirk::thumbsup:

#215

Took Raam into the pro league today. I fought two Fulgore, two Shagos, and a Glacius. The counter picking was real, heck one of the Shago players had a Cinder gamer pic, level 50 Cinder, Cinder player icon, and Cinder background yet he proceeded to use Shago. I probably blocked around 500 projectiles today.

2 Likes
#216

Whoa, dude. That’s rough. Props for sticking through the projectile storm.

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#217

I am really sorry about that. Really am for choosing Fulgore and playing lame. You got me with that instinct though. I was sort of hoping for a rematch if we both got to the same section in losers. Ggs btw.

1 Like
#218

I agree! but…to start talking ■■■■ and saying your running away and you are afraid and showing your frustration because someone isnt playing into your game plan is just down right spoiled. HE didnt know I could hear him…or maybe he could but he wasnt speaking to me, he was speaking as if he was talking to himself or to his friend.

Its annoying and I cant stand when people do that. Im not going to fight toe to toe with any of the brawlers… you do that and you will loose…no doubt. Im gonna use my tools the way they are meant to be used…if the opponent cant figure that out…well then he needs to do some practicing.

#219

What Pro league?

#220

It’s fine, oddly enough the other Fulgore that put me in losers was actually rushing me down, I would much rather deal with zoning and runaway than teleport mix ups.

Killer instinct pro league. Once a month online tournament. It’s being streamed on the KI twitch channel right now.