Gargos is annoying to fight

#303

That’s not how killer instinct has ever worked, nor will it. The game started with the person breaking being at huge advantage, now we’ve reached a point where you return to neutral which is pretty fair for all. What you’re suggesting is way too far in the favor of the person being broke. Your reward for opening them up was the initial damage, if you are going to risk continuing the combo you do so at your own risk.

Also think about how much more annoying fighting gargos would be for you with that change. If he has two minions out and you break him, he can just setup a nasty mix-up or run away or put out a new minion while you are stuck there doing nothing unable to even jab out to get rid of his minions.

Side note: gargos’ greatest weakness is footsie range, not up in his face. So the way breakers work now is actually good for most characters against him

2 Likes
#304

@ZDhome That sounds like a nightmare, not gonna lie.

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#305

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#306

I needed this. Thank you for making this.

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#307

you’re welcome

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#308

Can someone point me to video of a good Wulf fighting a good Gargos and doing well? It seems like IG didn’t really take into account the full picture of the existing roster when designing Gargos because some characters just do not have the tools to deal with him. If the only option is to have a ‘pocket character’, then that is bad design IMHO. The quadruple jump into blocked dive into more floating is impossible for Wulf to do anything about. And then he can dive at you again if he wants. It’s insane.

The argument that he is a boss character is not valid. CPU Shago was designed with some seriously OP stuff but IG realized that they had to tone him down before they put him in people’s hands. Same with every other playable boss in fighting game history.

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#309

If he does j.hp (the dive bomb) then he can’t do anything else. It’s reckoning that he can do a small mix up with. I would advise finding something that takes care of the reckoning stuff. For the quad jump into dive. The patient game will be your friend.

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#310

When blocking Dive>Bounce Away, often you’ll have to block a second dive, at which point you can chase him w air-to-air into juggle. Or be ready to react to any dive w Uppercut.

I don’t play Wulf, by the way. But I play a bit of Gargos, and while you do have to apply your defense a little differently, it doesn’t seem all that bad. Definitely not must have a pocket character bad (can’t speak to all MUs, maybe some are like that), but not as bad as it seems. He is definitely wreckable, but you have to approach him sort of differently, and sometimes use your tools in unorthodox ways. Wulfs divekick can give him he’ll if hes committed to the aerial keep away game.

It can be rough. That’s true. I’m not trying to tell anyone to git gud, but there is definitely some creativity involved in taking him down sometimes. My suggestion is to lab it up with your main. It is doable, and some tricks you learn along the way could help out elsewhere (or not). Either way, you’ll improve as a player by sticking it out and learning to overcome his BS.

EDIT AFTER SEEING FENGSHUI POST: Also definitely learn the difference between Reckoning (the dive>bounce) and j.HP (the swoop). Swoop is easily punished, but you gotta be able to differentiate them. If you block Swoop and expect him to bounce away or dive again, it’s gonna be annoying.

Further, as Wulf, just get on him out the gate. If he starts flying during the positioning phase, get airborne and ready w either fastest button into juggle or flipout (if your in his flying face) or divekick (if he’s flying away and you won’t be able to keep up, just line up your shot).

#311

I think Gargos should be replaced by a slab of bacon, his two minions would be pork chops.

Honestly, as a Sadira main, I hate this fight more than I hate the Cinder match up. In many ways it is far worse than the Kan Ra match up ever was.

Gargos (a half way decent one) has a ton of options that keeps Sadira at bay, even without minions. Get them involved and then I have to do even more work to get in.

I think if they reduced the number of hits to kill a minion by one it would be a bit more decent.

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#312

Then why would i summon a minion wasting one bar of meter if they are useless? Sadira deserves that fight, i believe that she is the most anoying character to fight in the entire roster.

2 Likes
#313

That’s not a viable solution. Let the game evolve a little more before any gargos balancing is in order. It’s a tough match for sadira, worst case scenario, you counter pick.

#314

A character being annoying is one thing… A character getting an unfair advantage is another. At this moment, Gargos is broken. Yes his defense is terrible once you can get in, but giving him beyond superd offense just doesn’t work.

The minions give him a crazy advantage and little cost to him, in terms of risk. Each punch the minion takes is one less punch Gargos has to deal with. In essence he gets a mini extra bar of life every time one of them is on the field. They absord attacks that would other wise go in his direction. He gets extra offense because they are on the field. They can interrupt combos continually, unlike lets say Sadira’s web, Orchid’s grenade, or Kan Ra’s Scarab. They can move around independent of Gargos. In short they are literally two extra, yet weaker, fighters that you as a combatant has to deal with.

If you kill one. It doesn’t hurt Gargos in the least bit. As soon as he has an opening (such as after a combo breaker) he can summon another one.

My suggestion is this, if you kill a minion it does damage to Gargos (fierce kick kind of damage), yet on the flipside… damaging a minion gains Gargos meter.

In terms of fighting Sadira… anti air… anti air… anti air… Almost everything Sadira does is high risk. If you are patient and keep a good eye on her movement, you can knock her out of the air almost every time. Most other characters areal attacks have more priority than hers. Most Sadiras will jump for the sake of jumping of which leads to some pretty predictable fights.

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#315

You do know you can hit Gargos and the minions at the same time, right? Or heck, carry Gargos across the screen and ignore them altogether?

Figure it out, it’s not hopeless.

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#316

I generally blade demon through them right into Gargos… The problem is that no sooner do I knock them down they are literally back up and on my tail. You literally need to deal with them first or every combo you perform on Gargos will be interrupted. I played a few sets against a very good Gargos and that is sort of how it works.

#317

The minions take somewhere around 4 seconds to get up (which is a long time in a match, believe me) and their walk speed is terrible. If you carry Gargos across the screen well enough, you can kill over half his life bar before they start bothering you again.

2 Likes
#318

That only works IF you are playing against a Gargos that doesn’t know how to use him. In all the Gargos fights that I’ve played against people that knew how to use him. They don’t let that happen. For starters they don’t start tossing out the minions until they have Instrinct. If I bypass said minions into Gargos, they immediately pop Instinct and follow up with cancelling it. As I’m either jumping and or using blade demon, the blast knocks me back into his shadow fists and more importantly back into the minions.

If I manage to kill one (Usually Stabby stab stab), I will then have to circumnavigate Fatso to get back to Gargos… However Gargy has already gained another bar of meter and is already resurrecting Stabby McStab Stab once more.

Yeah you’ll totally ■■■■■ noob Gargos, but those who actually know how to use him… It’s not nearly that easy.

#319

I find that with most characters jumping back to hit the minions and just eating the punch chip damage does me wonders.

#320

Thats why you have to rushdown him, so he wont be able tu summon minions and if he pops instinct near you grab him or use any heavy normal, you can literally make him waste all his instinct.
If any Sadira allows him to be far away from her and he starts his zoning + minions then that Sadira is probably dead.

#321

Bad MU’s exist. Sadira plagued quite a few characters in much the same manner in seasons 1 and 2. Not everyone had (or has, for that matter) good answers to her pressure once she gets on top of them. Which she’s pretty good at doing, given her high mobility. Like Gargos, she was largely balanced around “once you knock her down, keep her there.”

Gargos with minions and positioning is a problem, and we all know this. At that point he becomes ridiculously strong. And Sadira struggles in the neutral in this fight in general (but would struggle a lot less if more Sadira players knew how to approach on the ground). It’s not a great fight for her, but Gargos isn’t “broken”. He has a good MU against her, to go along with a bunch of pretty crappy fights where once he gets knocked down he’s hosed. Including this one, for that matter.

6 Likes
#322

Perhaps we should get some vids in here to see what the problem is with sadira vs gargos. I would like to see other sadiras fight a gargos. Just to see.