Gargos is annoying to fight

#283

Lol. Yeah, minions are pretty much the devil. If I have a meter, I will gladly shadow across the stage in neutral to clip them, even if doing so guarantees a punish by Gargos. I’d rather take my chances in the combo game than try and play neutral/defense wth McStabby and Porkins running around. :joy:

3 Likes
#284

Many times, I purposely summon minions so Jago will spend the meter to hit hit them. It helps reduce the threat when he goes into instinct.

#285

Why did you make it such a terrible move in the first place? My guess is if he has minions on the field then using it is much more safe because the minions can help keep their master from harm.

#286

Im pretty positive Gargos will get some nerfs.

Not because he is “Too good”, but because he gets some unfair, unavoidable advantages.

Gargos only really has to win 1 round to get going. If you beat the Sh** out of him, then when he takes round 2, he gets to push you away and get a free minion at the end of the round, and then when the round starts, freely activate instinct and maybe get a 2nd minion out.

“Free” ANYTHING is never good in a fighting game.

On top of this, the “combo breaker” system puts Gargos far away after every breaker. So staying in on him is LITERALLY impossible unless you have multiple perfect breaker reads.

If they ever find a way to make the combo breaker system NOT advantageous for certain characters, he will be easier to fight.

#287

If the breaker system isn’t advantageous for zoner characters, then it’ll be advantageous to rushdown characters, and we’ll hear a lot of “I can never get TJ out of my face”.

The breaker system has always (and probably will continue to always) slightly benefit certain characters more than others.

2 Likes
#288

I agree ZDhome that Gargos will get nerfed in some shape or form (other than fixing bug problems). As a Sadira main, he can utterly shut me down without barely lifting a wing… I jump forward. He knocks me out of the air with a phantom punch. I dodge the punch with Blade Demon. He jumps and hits me with his Heavy Wing normal. IF I can get just right out of his command grab zone, I can manage him… That is until he summons minions, and any high level playing Gargos is going to summon minions.

#289

None of that is “free” though. To get the minion out, Gargos had to lay hands on you, take a round from you, etc. and then he had to manage his offense well enough to cover his minion and keep it from getting hit, and then he probably had to close distance on you, because he’s not going to build a ton of meter unless he gets close or you unwisely decide to just turtle up with a minion beside you.

Minions absolutely suck to deal with, it’s true. That’s why I don’t deal with them. I make sure to always have a bar against Gargos, and the instant he calls McStabby or the Fat Guy I shadow into it like a man possessed and take the hit. The punish from Gargos is worth the hit to the minion, and I’ll take my chances in the breaker game.

Life and shadow meter are resources - you don’t win by hoarding either of them. You win by taking two of Gargos’ life bars before he takes two of yours. Sometimes that means you take some upfront damage to weaken Gargos’ options for super-oppressive offense, and sometime that means you pass on that shadow damage ender so that you can lay hands on an impending minion call.

Gargos’ defense is abysmal, which is precisely why his offensive options are so strong. It’s your job as his opponent to play the game such that he doesn’t get to shift off into that super powerful pressure game. You don’t get to play Gargos like you do everyone else - you take stock of his resources and yours, and if you need to trade some meter and some life to keep the fight in a more balanced neutral, then that’s the sacrifice that you need to make. Gargos doesn’t get to do much “for free” - how much he gets away with is largely up to you.

6 Likes
#290

You do realize regardless of fighting game, there will ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS be at least one character who can benefit from the universal mechanics better then the rest. That’s just kinda how it flows together.

1 Like
#291

Then they should purposely give the advantage to a player.

The person who started the combo should get some advantage frames to move around. That way zoners can stay zoning and rushdowns can stay rushdown-ing.

#292

They do. 0-+2 after a combo breaker.

#293

That aint enough. If yu start a combo, and get broken, you should have enough time to start a movement option. a dash or a jump. 15 frames. The opponent would be invincible until the end, obviously.

#294

So…you get broken…but have enough frames to dash up and be in range of a mix-up?

#295

yes.

that way, zoning characters could back up, and rushdown characters could have a chance to open them up again.

Characters are DESIGNED with keepaway / rushdown tools. If you cant use them properly, then you should be punished. NOT be allowed to fall back on using combo breakers to get FREE spacing.

#296

So invinbility when they land and can move about in those I-frames for free? Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

#297

no no no no no.

The player at the DISADVANTAGE, who has to hold still while the other guy moves around, is invincible.

Some moves can connect in 15 frames, so invincibility is necessary so that no one can combo after a combo breaker.

#298

No thanks, I’d rather not be held in place after a combo breaker.

#299

that is your punishment for getting combo’d in the first place.

They opened you up, You got combo’d, you broke it, which ended the combo, and took away the potential damage on you, THATS ENOUGH. You dont get to move. They get to re-position, and you get 1 more chance to block their mix-up.

#300

But then you’re being in a constant mix-up and probably would never see the neutral game again.

#301

Thats your fault. you want to get the opponent off of you and go back to the neutral game? Use your tools. Puddle punch, sand-splosion, air-flick, back dash, or BLOCK the mix-up. or shadow counter.

#302

Well ok.