Gargos is annoying to fight

#243

I’m an Aganos main, and Gargos it’s my secondary character right now.

IMO Aganos wins against Gargos currently. With the portal punch bug. Spending a shadow meter(for example) to punish a spaming Gargos it’s almost free. You generate to much meter just blocking his portal punches, And they deal poor chip damage

#244

I still don’t understand this concept even though I’ve heard of it before. It always sounds like a frametrap or vortex kind of thing to me.

I’m an Aganos main too, and have been since he came out. That being said, I never said he wasn’t beatable, just that he can be unfair by unscrupulously using the bug (this of course, won’t apply if what Skryba says is true, which Ihaven’t tested yet, because I’m still trying to reply to you guys). I will admit that I haven’t fought Gargos very much though, especially since I haven’t been able to play online for almost a week now. However, I have fought good ones who seem to know what they’re doing - @Sasuke99I is a good example of 1 - and in those cases, it is a very hard matchup, largely because of the portal punches. Furthermore, you seem to forget that Agaons’ opponents also gain far more meter in S3 then they used to against him. And when do they gain meter? When I block those portal punches and get locked down. So, yes, I can save the meter, but he’ll also have options too - for example, 1 I see a lot is the use of shadow portal punch to knock me down if I attempt to jump out of a regular portal punch.

#245

First off, you should thank your lucky stars if Gargos spends a meter in neutral on a shadow portal punch anti-air. It does piddly damage and he gets nothing off of it; it is probably the worst possible use of a bar that Gargos has.

I don’t know what to tell you on this one. If you can’t go from forward to back fast enough to block a move with as much start-up as (any) portal punch, then you’re going to have difficulties in a whole lot more MU’s than this one, and Gargos is the least of your worries. Fortunately, since I’ve seen you react to projectiles with shadow ruin, I’m reasonably certain that your reactions are fast enough to make a slow approach if you really want to. You’re not trying to hold forward to intimidate him - your goal is simply to steal little bits of screen at a time. Gargos doesn’t haven’t anything unreactable to hit you with until you’re relatively close to him.

“Oki” (short for okizeme) is just a catch-all term for applying pressure on someone’s wakeup.

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#246

Can’t he use it to transition into a juggle or bounce (with light or heavy portal punch, respectively) though? I know he can do things with it as a linker, but that’s not in neutral, so that doesn’t necessarily apply here.

On a side note, I’m trying to get to the lab to test these things out, but I’m having difficulty getitng past the DLC screen. :frowning:

#247

I have to disagree. The word “unscrupolously” doesn’t fit here. It’s a bug and Gargos can take advantage of it, I don’t rely in it because I know it will be ripped off soon, so I don’t want to get a bad habit, but this is like seeing S2 release TJ or Maya. You knew they were unfair, they should be tuned down somehow, but you don’t just give up once you see them. Portal Punch bug its a bug, it’s not intented, and it’s an extra tool Gargos shoulnt have… But he has it, and since it’s not game breaking and doesn’t condemn any character to never win against him… I’m OK with anybody who wants to use it. I see it like an obvious point to balance in an overpowered character(not saying Gargos it’s op, just compairing with any other case of OP character that you know will get a nerf, like s2 launch maya).

I shouldn’t build my gameplay around it since it’s going to be out more soon than late, but its not game breaking. I find it “dishonest” in a friendly match, and I choose to not use it, but if there is money in the table, well, the final goal of a competition its winning, as @thekeits stated. And he is right

At full screen, Gargos options are shadow portal punch(which it’s meh) and minions(which can be good if the setup it’s good). Once you land a shadow ruin, Gargos it’s in problems. Even with meter, he has poor options against Aganos when waking up. At the end, Aganos get better trade of blocking portal punch spam than Gargos.

If I recall correctly, you were an Injustice player Geek. I was a Lex/Bane/Sinestro day 1 player. Did you found “dishonest”, unfair or overpowered the launch day Deathstroke? Because IMO Deathstroke was fair, but required more patience than other characters, and NR gave him up too soon, He got undeserved nerfs IMO because people was salty and impatient against him.

And although portal punch it’s bugged, I see a lot people jumping in the wandvagon of “Gargos it’s unfair, ban him”. And it’s not at that point at all.

#248

While this is true, there have been instances where he’s been able to block my shadow ruin in time (which is generally more likely to happen the further away I am, since it takes longer to “fly” across the screen) after the block.

While it’s not necessarily related to the topic, this actually reminds me of another instance or issue I have with Aganos - there have been numerous times where I will immediately follow up an attack (far s.HP or far s.HK attack, for example) with natural disaster in order to start a combo only to have them recover and block in time, even though I never stopped the flow of the combo (cancelling into it, that is). This of course, is really bad, since natural disaster is incredibly punishable. Why does that happen?

#249

If things that otherwise should confirm into combo don’t, then it means (a) perhaps the confirm in question is only available on counter-hit, or (b) you mucked up the timing. I know that (b) is frustrating to hear, but it’s the truth, and going back and reviewing the replay with inputs on will pretty much always reveal that you were just late on your cancel.

Not as far as I can tell. Shadow portal punch doesn’t bounce the opponent up or anything, and it has its own recovery unless it hits grounded and you get to cancel directly into the combo system. Heavy portal punch is too slow by far to juggle off an anti-air shadow PP, and I’m pretty sure that light doesn’t work either. Too much startup, and the opponents fall to the floor too quickly.

#250

I’ve always figured this is the case, but I always find it odd that the timing would be off when my fingers literally don’t stop moving. That being said, I will review the inputs with this, along with everything else, once I can actually get into the game itself (fracking network issues are causing me to lose hair, it seems) - if I don’t do it right, I only get acess to S1 characters + the free character, which shouldn’t happen and doesn’t do me any good.

#251

I just wanted to chime in and say that those two books were absolutely essential to me. Anyone who hasn’t read these and is into competitive FGs definitely should take the time to do so.

Juicebox_FGC has an audio-book version of Playing to Win on his YouTube Channel.

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#252

Never heard of or read those guides.

For me, competitive play is not about being the best or even winning, but simply seeing how far I can personally go, and to do so fairly. It’s a matter of honor and I’d rather lose with that, then win unfairly. It’s my knight vs. your pirate.

#253

Feels like Gargos is the most OP released to date so far. Since his release he crashes the game, makes people salty in combat, and now buggy punches. I’m j/k btw before some one takes it seriously.

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#254

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

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#255

Finally got into the lab to test stuff out (I had to set my console to offline mode). As far as I can see, what @Skryba said is correct - there is no bug on block. I admit I was wrong there. With that in mind, I’ve come to realize just how much more easily punishable Gargos actually is, which leads credence to everyone else’s argument. I re-tested each of the portal punches knowing this and have discovered that, with proper timing post-block, both regular natural disaster and ruin can stop Gargos if he immediately attempts another portal punch of the same kind (jumping is still not recommended). What I found really interesting was that the delay is such in some cases that I can even do so from full screen (especially with the latter). I only have 2 questions regarding my tests:

  1. When I set my opponent to record a single move, does that move come out as fast as humanly possible (that is to say, on the very next frame as the previous move completes)?
  2. If I set the block options to always, will that setting still be in effect during playback?

In any case, I’m still upset that the medium portal punch has a bit of pushback on block, but that’s a minor thing in comparison to everything else we’ve been talking about.

Also, Storm was also right. Shadow portal punch doesn’t actually juggle or bounce, which is where he was right, but what it can do is lead into 1 from neutral, as the move is considered a combo opener. However, this also means break opportunities become available, which is also good. Furthermore, if I jump and get hit by the shadow portal punch, it cannot be used as an opener as it causes a knockdown without a bounce with no chance for a follow-up attack due to recovery frames (although it can lead to potential pressure on wakeup).

#256

Maybe making sure you know how something works before suggesting a ban would be a stronger course of action in the future?

This is a great notion. Its why I played too.

… and this is a huge mental road block for you that goes directly against the first part of your goal. ‘Unfairness’ is in your head. You manufactured it. It isn’t based on the reality that the SOFTWARE determines who wins based on rules. No matter how you feel about those rules, everything the rules of the game allow are, in fact, completely ‘fair’. Every player has equal access to those rules and those characters and those tactics.

Playing to win cannot coexist with playing for honor.

Winning is a tangible thing that both human and software recognize.

Honor is a construct that only you recognize.

Think about these concepts and I hope they help you break through your mental roadblocks. I had these same issues when I was playing in 1996, but to be the best you can be, you must drive past them.

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#257

I’ve never been flagged in any thread on this forum before. That was a first. Defend MKX…get flagged. Whatever.

On topic. Gargos was built to be annoying to fight…if YOU ALLOW him to get all his tools on screen.

#258

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#259

I updated my last post (would’ve finished it sooner, but got distracted by a call from my ISP’s tech support) - please give it a read.

As for:[quote=“TheKeits, post:256, topic:10812”]
Maybe making sure you know how something works before suggesting a ban would be a stronger course of action in the future?
[/quote]

I did. I spent over an hour testing his portal punches a couple of weeks ago in the lab and distinctly remember getting knocked back down over and over again. Looking back, however, I think it simply had to do with bad timing on my part or with lag while the same scenario played out online (cheap players that is) that has influenced what I believed.[quote=“TheKeits, post:256, topic:10812”]

… and this is a huge mental road block for you that goes directly against the first part of your goal.
[/quote]

…and I knew you’d reply with something along these lines. Let’s see how I do in tournament play before I make that kind of decision. :wink:

#260

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#261

Plenty of MKX threads to be found, folks. Topic at hand, and all that.

#262

Flagged again. 2 in a day. Wow.

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