You do get 1 or 2 pips over time. You always did.
The American Ken trinity (or at least, some members of it) were very well known for hugely downplaying Ken at the start, middle, and end of SF5ās first season. It happened often enough to be a running joke in the SF world. How can you say Ken was never downplayed?
SF players super downplay their characters, just like lots of players in every game. SF is not this magical land where people donāt get salty, upset over character balance, or say things that are eventually proven wrong.
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weather itās a higher minimum spin speed with less pips or smaller capacity for pips or something in between that compromises, I donāt really care.
I never said SF players donāt downplay their players i just donāt see it much with ken mainās (American players possibly but they do that an awful lot with everyone). And of course SF players get upset and salty (look at LTG) i never said they didnāt, soā¦donāt know why it was bought upā¦
Nash on the other Hand was down-played like mad by american playersā¦LI Joe and Alex Myeres are examples of players downplayed Nash like mad whilst infiltration said he was really really good and borderline cheap (during the 8 frame delay phase for both)ā¦F.Champ downplayed Sim for agesā¦Yet pro kens like momochi do not complain at all
And yet, at the end, many players (nash mains or otherwise) were saying nash was not actually that strong at all, just much easier and faster to take to a tournament-ready level than other characters.
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My head hurts. I honestly donāt know why I bothered reading through this whole thread. Shouldnāt have.
Anyone who complains fulgore doesnāt get enough meter, just watch some high level fulgore play of 3.5 or earlier patches and make note of how many shadow Blade dashes and shadow teleports the players do, just to blow the meter in a safe, + on block attempt at opening their opponent.
Yeah. He had too much meter. That much was pretty damn clear. Does this change go too far in solving that issue? I donāt think it does, in fact I think the char may end up stronger now. But lets just give it some time, how about that?
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Iād been saying it since day one, Nash really wasnāt all that good. Middle of the road, at best. A good fireball, alright buttons, no reversal, and a VTX that was weaker than it had to be.
Nash players got away w/ murder thanks to the extra input lag coupled w/ his bizarre dash animation (itās a teleport proxy). Oh, and peoples insistence on running face-first into stationary mash jabs that then get confirmed into damage.
Nothing like Fulgore, who is actually freaking incredible in almost every respect.
this thread is dead, can someone kill it please?
Nash got worse when the 8 frame input delay got reduced as his old dashes were very hard to react toā¦yeah nash is average at the end of season 1 but with the 8 frame delay he was better IMO
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You can build spin on both hit and block, confirm any damage you can get obviously, light blade dash is + on block if charged even a frame. But it seems youāre placing words into responsesā¦ Who lands a hit and lets it drop to give them a chance to block???
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THIS!!! ^
This is EXACTLY what Iāve been trying to explain to people. You donāt have to actually HIT the opponent to get meter just keeping them on block stun works just as well.
[quote="SullenMosquito, post:253, topic:16962, full:true"]
You can build spin on both hit and block, confirm any damage you can get obviously, light blade dash is + on block if charged even a frame. But it seems youāre placing words into responsesā¦ Who lands a hit and lets it drop to give them a chance to block???
[/quote]
This is false, light blade chage is still - if charged a little. You are punishable by raamās shadow command grab which will give the āpunishā sign.
what the ā ā ā ā happened to that quote
first off this thread needs to die but since it still exists I can vent my frustrations 
(not really)
so I just got bodied my skill4ex or scrillex or skillet, anyway his Sadira was pretty good. all juggles never actually never went into the traditional combo system. so now that fulgore applies pressure by pinning sadira down it just adds a big wall for a run back. not only do I have to block string her multiple times for a little meter I have to then wait for meter build up and then open her up. holy crap sheās hard to break. any advice?
Not much. Sadira is one of those characters that when played masterfully well can appear godlike even though she really isnāt.
Just a few things - recognizing that these are easy to say and hard to do.
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Donāt let her have her preferred spacing. It may not seem like it because sheās airborne so much but Sadira is actually playing air footsies with you and spacing matters a lot to her. She locks you down and prevents anti air and pressure by using very spacing dependent aerial moves that out you in blockstun while she crosses you up etc. You can disruptthis with some mobility. It wonāt fix everything but it can keep her from committing fully to some of here setups. When sheās in the air st the wrong time and spacing use your DP - thatās what itās for.
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If you knock her down, do your best to keep her there. Sadiraās wake up is pretty poor. Once sheās down try to keep the pressure on. Fulgore should be pretty good at doing this with his meaty fireballs etc.
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Donāt sweat the air combos. They are low damage so if you canāt break them donāt. You are mostly trying to minimize the number of combos not the number of hits. Her HP and MK air linkers are the most recognizable to me, so you might want to learn those and see if you can time them. But really just try to get opened up less.
In addition to @BigBadAndyās advice, try punishing her oki crossups w/ backdash>tripguard. All* backdashes have full invuln on startup, so you should be able to avoid her button, then catch her landing recovery w/ a button>opener. Considering Fulgore has that āmeter correlates to mobilityā thing, Iād suggest while labbing your punishes to maybe try finding a button that can connect from all backdashes, if possible. If not, try going straight into opener.
(*except Shago, whose invuln frames fall in the middle of his dash. Also, despite the invuln, some backdashes are just awful, like Glacius and Hisako)
Backdash is probably the most underrated defensive tool. It destroys tricky crossups though (w/ some exceptions).
Oh, and lots of Sadieās like to use j.MK as their manual into Kunai as they start their air combos. MK is 2hits, like an Aganos auto, so keep an eye out for that.
ya, his sadira was pretty on point. heād never do the same opener air juggle more then once. lights and heavies look the same, mediums are obvious and so he never did them. my god I need work lol. honestly I think I just need to fight more good sadira players. I can deal with rashās crap all day long. cinders too. I dunno. sheās pretty sick tho, in the right hands. thank you guys for your input and suggestions. I will put them into practiceā¦and still get rekt
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Thatās the path to improvement. Get rekt over and over and over and over again.
I like to follow a philosophy of FG improvement that I think of as āLittle Victoriesā - when you play, donāt worry about winning or losing, your lifebars or the clock. Decide that you are going to work something into your game, and focus on doing that whenever the opportunity presents itself. For example, tell yourself you are going to backdash>tripguard punish crossup attempts, and devote a little extra attention to spotting them. This is your victory condition, and every time you execute it correctly, you count it as a win. You can win several times a match, despite losing both lifebars. Life doesnāt matter, itās just about achieving the ālittle victoriesā until you are accomplishing that thing regularly, and itās just a part of your game. Then you move on to the next thing.
Shadow Labs can be remarkably useful for this sort of tactics-incorporation training (some tactics and MU-specifics more than others), so if youāre having a bad run w/o Sadiraās popping up in Ranked or Exhibition or whatever you play, maybe try going to the Shadow Lab and spider hunting for a while.
Lately Iāve been working on some stuff in the Riptor MU this way. Other characters it might not be so reliable, but bet every Sadie shadow at the 250pt. range and up is gonna try and cross you up over and over again. And really, you donāt have to worry so much about the knockdown factor. Just backdash what you judge to be crossup attempts, and punish her landing frames.
No thanks needed, happy to help!
oh I gots the jukes thunders cross ups are pretty deep and are hit and miss on backdash. Iāll post a videos maybe and itāll show you the hell I went through lol
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You know Shellā¦ when Iām on, Iād be glad to lend you my Sadira for some beat downsā¦ Iām not quite up to Skills craziness, but Iām getting there. 
Light blade dash is +- 0 un charged. Being punishable by raams grab is situational since the only thing comparable is Hisakoās command grab. They are 2 frames. Fulgoreās fastest normal is 4 frames. So in that 1 very very specific instance it is incorrect, but every where else it applies. Like any frame trap it is beaten by invincible reversals.
Edit: Some in training frame data remains incorrect. You have to manually test frame by frame now until it is updated