Fulgore instinct rant

#244

You do get 1 or 2 pips over time. You always did.

#245

The American Ken trinity (or at least, some members of it) were very well known for hugely downplaying Ken at the start, middle, and end of SF5’s first season. It happened often enough to be a running joke in the SF world. How can you say Ken was never downplayed?

SF players super downplay their characters, just like lots of players in every game. SF is not this magical land where people don’t get salty, upset over character balance, or say things that are eventually proven wrong.

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#246

weather it’s a higher minimum spin speed with less pips or smaller capacity for pips or something in between that compromises, I don’t really care.

#247

I never said SF players don’t downplay their players i just don’t see it much with ken main’s (American players possibly but they do that an awful lot with everyone). And of course SF players get upset and salty (look at LTG) i never said they didn’t, so…don’t know why it was bought up…

Nash on the other Hand was down-played like mad by american players…LI Joe and Alex Myeres are examples of players downplayed Nash like mad whilst infiltration said he was really really good and borderline cheap (during the 8 frame delay phase for both)…F.Champ downplayed Sim for ages…Yet pro kens like momochi do not complain at all

#248

And yet, at the end, many players (nash mains or otherwise) were saying nash was not actually that strong at all, just much easier and faster to take to a tournament-ready level than other characters.

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#249

My head hurts. I honestly don’t know why I bothered reading through this whole thread. Shouldn’t have.

Anyone who complains fulgore doesn’t get enough meter, just watch some high level fulgore play of 3.5 or earlier patches and make note of how many shadow Blade dashes and shadow teleports the players do, just to blow the meter in a safe, + on block attempt at opening their opponent.

Yeah. He had too much meter. That much was pretty damn clear. Does this change go too far in solving that issue? I don’t think it does, in fact I think the char may end up stronger now. But lets just give it some time, how about that?

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#250

I’d been saying it since day one, Nash really wasn’t all that good. Middle of the road, at best. A good fireball, alright buttons, no reversal, and a VTX that was weaker than it had to be.

Nash players got away w/ murder thanks to the extra input lag coupled w/ his bizarre dash animation (it’s a teleport proxy). Oh, and peoples insistence on running face-first into stationary mash jabs that then get confirmed into damage.

Nothing like Fulgore, who is actually freaking incredible in almost every respect.

#251

this thread is dead, can someone kill it please?

#252

Nash got worse when the 8 frame input delay got reduced as his old dashes were very hard to react to…yeah nash is average at the end of season 1 but with the 8 frame delay he was better IMO

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#253

You can build spin on both hit and block, confirm any damage you can get obviously, light blade dash is + on block if charged even a frame. But it seems you’re placing words into responses… Who lands a hit and lets it drop to give them a chance to block???

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#254

THIS!!! ^

This is EXACTLY what I’ve been trying to explain to people. You don’t have to actually HIT the opponent to get meter just keeping them on block stun works just as well.

#255
[quote="SullenMosquito, post:253, topic:16962, full:true"]

You can build spin on both hit and block, confirm any damage you can get obviously, light blade dash is + on block if charged even a frame. But it seems you’re placing words into responses… Who lands a hit and lets it drop to give them a chance to block???
[/quote]

This is false, light blade chage is still - if charged a little. You are punishable by raam’s shadow command grab which will give the “punish” sign.

what the ■■■■ happened to that quote

#256

first off this thread needs to die but since it still exists I can vent my frustrations :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:(not really)
so I just got bodied my skill4ex or scrillex or skillet, anyway his Sadira was pretty good. all juggles never actually never went into the traditional combo system. so now that fulgore applies pressure by pinning sadira down it just adds a big wall for a run back. not only do I have to block string her multiple times for a little meter I have to then wait for meter build up and then open her up. holy crap she’s hard to break. any advice?

#257

Not much. Sadira is one of those characters that when played masterfully well can appear godlike even though she really isn’t.

Just a few things - recognizing that these are easy to say and hard to do.

  1. Don’t let her have her preferred spacing. It may not seem like it because she’s airborne so much but Sadira is actually playing air footsies with you and spacing matters a lot to her. She locks you down and prevents anti air and pressure by using very spacing dependent aerial moves that out you in blockstun while she crosses you up etc. You can disruptthis with some mobility. It won’t fix everything but it can keep her from committing fully to some of here setups. When she’s in the air st the wrong time and spacing use your DP - that’s what it’s for.

  2. If you knock her down, do your best to keep her there. Sadira’s wake up is pretty poor. Once she’s down try to keep the pressure on. Fulgore should be pretty good at doing this with his meaty fireballs etc.

  3. Don’t sweat the air combos. They are low damage so if you can’t break them don’t. You are mostly trying to minimize the number of combos not the number of hits. Her HP and MK air linkers are the most recognizable to me, so you might want to learn those and see if you can time them. But really just try to get opened up less.

#258

In addition to @BigBadAndy’s advice, try punishing her oki crossups w/ backdash>tripguard. All* backdashes have full invuln on startup, so you should be able to avoid her button, then catch her landing recovery w/ a button>opener. Considering Fulgore has that “meter correlates to mobility” thing, I’d suggest while labbing your punishes to maybe try finding a button that can connect from all backdashes, if possible. If not, try going straight into opener.
(*except Shago, whose invuln frames fall in the middle of his dash. Also, despite the invuln, some backdashes are just awful, like Glacius and Hisako)

Backdash is probably the most underrated defensive tool. It destroys tricky crossups though (w/ some exceptions).

Oh, and lots of Sadie’s like to use j.MK as their manual into Kunai as they start their air combos. MK is 2hits, like an Aganos auto, so keep an eye out for that.

#259

ya, his sadira was pretty on point. he’d never do the same opener air juggle more then once. lights and heavies look the same, mediums are obvious and so he never did them. my god I need work lol. honestly I think I just need to fight more good sadira players. I can deal with rash’s crap all day long. cinders too. I dunno. she’s pretty sick tho, in the right hands. thank you guys for your input and suggestions. I will put them into practice…and still get rekt :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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#260

That’s the path to improvement. Get rekt over and over and over and over again.

I like to follow a philosophy of FG improvement that I think of as “Little Victories” - when you play, don’t worry about winning or losing, your lifebars or the clock. Decide that you are going to work something into your game, and focus on doing that whenever the opportunity presents itself. For example, tell yourself you are going to backdash>tripguard punish crossup attempts, and devote a little extra attention to spotting them. This is your victory condition, and every time you execute it correctly, you count it as a win. You can win several times a match, despite losing both lifebars. Life doesn’t matter, it’s just about achieving the “little victories” until you are accomplishing that thing regularly, and it’s just a part of your game. Then you move on to the next thing.

Shadow Labs can be remarkably useful for this sort of tactics-incorporation training (some tactics and MU-specifics more than others), so if you’re having a bad run w/o Sadira’s popping up in Ranked or Exhibition or whatever you play, maybe try going to the Shadow Lab and spider hunting for a while.

Lately I’ve been working on some stuff in the Riptor MU this way. Other characters it might not be so reliable, but bet every Sadie shadow at the 250pt. range and up is gonna try and cross you up over and over again. And really, you don’t have to worry so much about the knockdown factor. Just backdash what you judge to be crossup attempts, and punish her landing frames.

No thanks needed, happy to help!

#261

oh I gots the jukes :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: thunders cross ups are pretty deep and are hit and miss on backdash. I’ll post a videos maybe and it’ll show you the hell I went through lol

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#262

You know Shell… when I’m on, I’d be glad to lend you my Sadira for some beat downs… I’m not quite up to Skills craziness, but I’m getting there. :smiley:

#263

Light blade dash is +- 0 un charged. Being punishable by raams grab is situational since the only thing comparable is Hisako’s command grab. They are 2 frames. Fulgore’s fastest normal is 4 frames. So in that 1 very very specific instance it is incorrect, but every where else it applies. Like any frame trap it is beaten by invincible reversals.

Edit: Some in training frame data remains incorrect. You have to manually test frame by frame now until it is updated