Dragon Punch Motion


#41

What ?


#42

I don’t think you understand how much more powerful dp’s would be if they were only one button.


#43

Well yeah… can’t disagree with that. Its never been properly explained… as soon as someone even thinks about making DP’s more accessible the whole discussion grinds toa halt because it would be overpowered in some way that never gets explained.


#44

Think of this way. One button dp’s allow you to react to some near impossible stuff. Opponent does an overhead? No nead to block. Just press that dp. Opponent does a frametrap? No need to buffer a dp and risk getting hit. Just press that dp. It allows you to do a dp way to fast.


#45

I understand that your trying to display your opinion on making the game more accessible, but with something as radical as that it would remove lots of the complexity and depth that a game like this has.

The DP is a trump card, it beats every single attach. If you were able to DP at a moments will you’d be able to completely destroy every single gameplan the opponent has. You can’t always be hesitant and try to bait out the DP cause they opponent can decide not to do a DP. A DP is hard hitting and was supposed to be a move that can’t be performed at a moments notice.

Maybe in another game sure, but games similar to KI just can’t have that


#46

So the whole point of the DP Motion is to ensure it can’t be done immediately correct ?

Is F D DF the only method to achieve this effect ?


#47

Isn’t that why moves of immense power get nerfed in the first place ?


#48

What other options do you propose? We can’t do qcf as it already exist. We can’t do half circles as it overlaps with the quarter circles. We can’t do forward+button or back+button as those are already taken. You can do down up but you have to make dp’s do less damage as a result due to it working against cross ups.

That’s why F D DF is the input for DP’s. It nerfs the moves immense power.


#49

True but its inconsistent. Rather than bringing the move back down to an appropriate power level for everyone… instead some people windup not being able to use the move at all… in theory its balanced… in practice… not so much.

As for what input I would make it… well I would simply take whatever amount of Time the whole purpose of the Motion was suppose to delay the DP for and Simply added to the DP move itself.


#50

That ruins the whole point of dp’s though and makes it so that they can easily be option selected by the opponent. If you do a dp on wake up, the opponent can meaty jab and recover and block the dp.


#51

Then its a good thing your character has other moves… its not like we’re playing DP Fighter 7. Where the only move is the DP.


#52

What? DP’s are the main wakeup options to get the opponent off you. You basically remove dp’s from wakeup which means the opponent can just get free pressure. If you can’t do a dp, good thing your character can do other moves. DP is main wake up option for those who have it besides backdash, or block. What you want is to allow people to use dp’s but make them weaker so people won’t use them?


#53

Well thats easy simply do what the DPless characters do. Yeah its going be anoying and people won’t like it, but unlike the One Button DP Dilemma theres no Game breaking issues there.

How is that any different than what the current motion is doing ? A powerful move that can’t be executed consistently is no more useful than a rubbish move.

Besides I figured the whole “DPs are useless now might be an issue” and theres a already a relatively easy Fix for that. Simply enable The OG Properties in during Reversal Windows on Wake Up… if necessary you can enable them on Block aswell…

The DP is powerful in situations where people want it to be and normal when doing it Raw… since for whatever reason people don’t want Raw DPs to be quick.


#54

Part of balance is that some characters have better defensive options than others. Basically, you want to remove the depth in the game so people can do things? Dp’s can be executed consistently.

What? This isn’t going to help the people you want to help. All you are doing is causing confusion to new players on why a move isn’t consistent. Plus you also ruin combo potential as well.

Removing depth from the wake up game isn’t an issue? Just adding more start up frames to compensate for one button dp’s is not a good idea. Which button would you even make one button dp’s?


#55

You do realise Fighting Games are confusing enough as it is… besides the confusion can be fixed by simply adding a shimmering or sound effect to the reversal DP… to indicate its intended purpose.

Besides this is no where near as confusing and frustrating as DP motions being so similar to the Fireball motion that walking forward and and trying to do a fireball results in the wrong move coming out… now that is Confusing. My flawed suggestion is Peanuts compared to that.

I thought I already adressed this issue.


#56

the only option that makes sense here is to have all DPS be like Eydols DP. Thats as far as Id be willing to let it go.


#57

One button DP’s would be a nightmare; it’s so good as a reversal and an AA that it’s intentionally the most difficult input in this game. Nobody would jump anymore!!! Half the combos people get on my Fulgore are due to flubbed DP’s.

I had trouble with the input for awhile but a couple hours in the lab practicing using it on reaction, crossup, and naked and I figured it out. There are plenty of other characters with DP’s that don’t have DP inputs, anyway. There’s always Rising Thunder.
Here’s a relevant video:


#58

Heres what happens when you take something that wasn’t meant to be easy to execute and make it one button:


#59

I don’t think the DP motion was “designed” at the start, when it was first used in SF2. But as we’ve played fighting games over the years, we’ve learned a few things about this motion:

  • It takes more time to do than a QCF or QCB
  • It is more difficult to do from a blocking or crouch-blocking position than most other motions (shortcuts aside, of course)
  • It forces you to leave block for the duration of the motion (important!)
  • A lot of beginners can struggle with this motion

One-button DPs are too strong in most fighting games, unless you intentionally design the entire game engine around this sole mechanic (see, Rising Thunder), but even then I have my sincere doubts about them. The reason is, turning your character invincible is incredibly powerful, and because fighting games are tailored around reaction times, you need to add to the reaction time required to do this, because otherwise it simply is a much superior option to blocking for the same amount of input time (moving a stick to block vs pressing one button are about the same).

You can argue that DP motions should be replaced by QCB or QCF, and there are pros and cons to doing that (in particular, it’s easier for beginners), but in KI, the quarter circle DPs (Glacius/Eyedol/etc) are either weak in damage or slow. They save the fast, hard-hitting DPs for the DP motion for the reasons I stated above.


#60

Saw that video… and every other video in that playlist… Core A Gaming is awesome !!! Its like GMTK For Fighting Games… that being said I disagree with Gerald there. Simply because he never factors in the people who can’t do the move… nobody does. They just couldn’t be bothered… also in an earlier video he say something that contradicts his this video… look up the “Reason’s Fighting Games are better than Fighting Sports.” Video.

Hours ? HOURS ??? LoL… the gods have clearly given unto thee with both Hands if you mastered it in mere hours.