i guess you must hate that man LOL
I donât hate Ginyu as a character, but Body Change has to be one of the most cancerous moves in most Dragon Ball games, and I donât doubt it will be just as irritating here.
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-shrug- Weâll see how it gets implemented. I can actually think of quite a few ways you could balance it out more or less, and make it useful while not being OD. I never played any of the past DB games, but as I understand, none of those were particularly competitive to begin with. They all mostly had plenty of degenerate and brokenish stuff to begin with.
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Quoted from a few months ago. Looking forward to seeing the route they take with Ginyu 
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My favorite DBZA character is in the game! Iâm more hype than before! 
âI am hilarious and you will quote everything I say.â
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Heh, I never played any DBZ fighter since Ps2, but I can see this move being problematic
How I would make it?
1-Ginyu can only use it twice per fight. One would be the P1 use, the other the P2. Letâs say Storm and Sonic are P1 and P2. Storm could use it to steal Sonicâs Golden Frieza, but Sonic could take it back using it again. After this, it will be impossible for Ginyu to use it again.
2-Takes a lot of meter, like 5 bars(or even 7!)
3-Itâs not comboable into, it has slow startup, but also has some inv frames. More or less, works as 16 explosion: There are situations where you can land it, but itâs difficult to do so
4-Ginyu punches himself, dealing some potential damage on himself, then the switch occurs. The health bars are also switched. Taking the previous example, Stormâs Ginyu is at 50%, while Sonicâs Frieza is at 100%. Storm now has Frieza and +50% health, while Sonic now has Ginyu at 50%(and an extra % of potential damage)
5-If there are two Ginyus in the same team, Ginyu assist changes into a Special Forces taunt(Ginyu canât assist Ginyu!)
6-Ginyu regular assist is actually quite good, so you can have access to it more frequently if someone âgives youâ his Ginyu
7-Also, Ginyu gets a special win pose if he wins with any body which isnât his!
In english!
It seems Reecom helps Ginyu too, kinda similar to 18 and 17.
Maybe his some kind of special attack, instead an assist. It would be nice if Ginyu moveset actually is attacks which involves his special forces
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I think saw a translation on reddit that said the whole Ginyu Force will be incorporated in his moveset.
Now that I have Ginyu and 16, I just need Broly for my full team. Until then, Nappa will be my third fighter.
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TOKUSENTAI!!. . . .TOKUSENTAI!!
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The G R E A T N A P P A has arrived!
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With Nappa in the game now, I gotta say, it would be awesome if they had some dubbed in team four star quotes as an option.
âHey Vegeta! Hey Vegeta! Hey Vegeta!â
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Iâd actually take the opposite track - make it confirmable, but give it no invincibility. Playing DBFZ at SEAM has confirmed my previous thoughts that wakeup/reversal super in this game is strong. If you have two or three bars for a DHC or a level 3, weâre basically talking about a DP that can do 50-70% damage. Give the move no invinciblity to keep Ginyu from mashing out of pressure, while rewarding him for landing a real touch on an opponent while wounded. It also creates an interesting tension between how much damage he wants to do to you in a given situation; whether he wants to go for the kill or go instead for the switch, that I think can be really interesting. Maybe when he lands that confirm heâll want to swap immediately to preserve your (his) health bar. Maybe instead he wants to go for max damage. I think thatâs a fun bit of decision-making that Iâd like to see encouraged.
I donât think it needs too much additional balancing beyond the amount of bar required (3 bars is sufficient I think) and a lack of invinciblity to be honest. This game has a LOT of ways to absolutely murder lifebars, so the onus will be on the opponent to make sure that when they get that solid hit on Ginyu they make it count. Body change wonât be super strong if Ginyu is forced to have a lot of life when he uses it. If you needed an additional balancing feature though, some amount of blue life granted upon body switch would probably be the way to go.
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I actually like this a lot, it creates an interesting situation.
I buy it!
By the way, itâs confirmed that Ginyu moveset will involve all the special forces. 5 characters in one! Sounds crazy!
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Well, wanted the video from the SEAM tournament to go up before I posted this, but since it wonât be uploaded until sometime next week might as well put down my thoughts while theyâre still somewhat fresh.
So I had the opportunity to play a decent amount of DBFZ this past weekend at Southeast Asia Majors, and participated in a tournament for the game that they had onsite. I feel like I got a good sense of some of the broad strokes of what the game will look and feel like at a semi-competitive level, as well as just general senses of flow and options within the fighting system.
We all know by now that the game looks gorgeous, but how does it play?
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DBFZ is a game of strong options, in a good way. Strong pressure, strong frametraps, strong movement tools, strong reversals. A single mistake can cost you 50-70% of a characterâs health. That may rub some people the wrong way, but I find that I like it a lot. There are a variety of tools to open up the opponent, including extended pressure strings, frame traps, and mixups while someone is held in place. But at the same time, reversal supers, tag-outs, and assist calls of oneâs own can impose some pretty harsh limitations on an overzealous attacker. I like that, as it means players are forced to respect strong defensive options just as much as they have to respect strong offensive pressure. Making a mistake on either side can very easily get a character mauled or killed.
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DBFZâs neutral is very interesting. Because of the strong punishes present for basic offensive pressure options (i.e., down+HPâs or supers against homing dashes), I think that at anything beyond beginner/casual level there is a solid mix of risk/reward associated with how you approach or pressure your opponent. At higher levels of play there will be a consistent threat of âbut what if they do this?â that tempers when and how the players will choose to approach and when and where theyâll push buttons. In grand finals there was serious tension towards the end, as both I and my opponent knew that any careless approach option could get us killed. That led to an interesting mix of feints and dashes and single energy blasts, as we both tried to get one another to commit to an unsafe approach or punish attempt. It was actually pretty glorious.
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Confirmed (to me at least) that appending supers to most combos is an almost criminal use of meter in this game. Smart use of bar for vanish extensions and DHCâs can make combos hit for 50% life or more, but simply doing combo->beam super is nearly worthless. If it wonât kill, save your bar - it will be better spent on a level 3 or DHC punish or reversal super.
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Somewhat related, I think maximizing bar for punishes is going to be a super important skill in this game. While combo optimization is doubtless going to be important at higher level and as the game ages, I think at the start the more useful skill will be in knowing how to use bar to achieve max damage on simple things. A fully optimized combo that spends a few bars can hit that homing dash for 50%. Or, you can just reaction level 3 the homing dash for the same damage or probably more. I probably lost the tournament because of subpar combo conversions - but at the same time, I made 2nd place by having mostly good decision making regarding the use of my meters to get damage. I think this is a cool design philosophy, because it means that smart play (max damage conversions off simple things) doesnât necessarily have to come with crazy execution to be decently effective. The low barrier for entry extends far enough into the competitive level of play that the person with the nicest combos isnât necessarily the favorite to win if his opponent understands how to maximize damage elsewhere.
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The gameâs combo paths are certainly not as free as GG or Marvel, but there is some complexity built into the system. I donât know that I really like the kind of canned combos the game semi-forces you into, but I did see a decent amount of variety and cool extensions using assists and such. Iâm not really a combo or execution guy (which is why I like that combos arenât necessarily life and death even in competition), but I think the people who are will find some stuff to sink their teeth into. Not as much as Marvel, or maybe even as much as Rash or Cinder, but definitely a bit more than what most people have probably seen of the game to date. Once you start adding in assists and wall bounces you get some really cool conversions.
Have more thoughts, but this post is already pretty long. Feel free to ask me any questions you might have about my experience with the game - Iâll do my best to provide my perspective based on my time with it. 
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Congrats on placing 2nd and thanks for this info. As an aside, I guess we can finally shut the book on all those haters who said no KI players ever have success in other gamesâŠ
If this remains true through the final release I think itâs a smart way for them to differentiate themselves from Marvel games where (at least it seems to me) supers are best used as combo extenders to rack up damage and the thought of using a super outside of combo (unless you are going for big chip damage is sort of scary.
To be honest, this is all I can ask for. I donât expect to win tournaments and I donât expect to beat guys with better reflexes, more time in the game, and a better execution if tough combos. But recognizing my own level of play I just want to know that I have a chance to make some decisions that will impact the outcome of a match instead of just standing there getting mauled while I have no idea wtf is going in (which is my general experience with Marvel).
Iâm still on the fence about this one because while I think the game looks gorgeous and the gameplay sounds intriguing, I know itâs going to move at a faster pace than I like and the source material doesnât hold much appeal for me. Whether I play it or not, itâs good to see some variety and innovation in fighting games.
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Really looking forward to seeing that gameplay footage from SEAM. And congrats on the 2nd place, @STORM179 =D starting out at the top already, I see!
From what I tried of DBFZ during the closed beta, the game seems very much to mix the best of both worlds, between marvel and guilty gear (Marvelâs chaotic team + assist based neutral and offense, with GGâs movement and defensive options, as well as bigger focus on frame trapping and one on one play despite the team build, emphasized by the pause between dying chars, instead of allowing the incoming character mixup) packed together in a much more newcomer-friendly and accessible package.
My only concern with the game (which is not altogether an actual fear for the gameâs viability competitively, as I believe that from what Iâve seen, itâs pretty much assured to do great) is that the more linear combo structure might push away players who are more of a lab monster or make the gameplay become a bit stale for the viewer instead of the player (as the player, the game seems to have a lot of depth in terms of strategy, neutral approach, offense and defense, setups, mind games, and a big emphasis on team build, but as the viewer some of this may easily be lost on what may look like a repetition of the same-ish combos over and over again).
That being said, I do believe that this will be less of a factor a couple months into the gameâs life, after launch, as people will undoubtedly discover different combo options and steer a lot more towards setup and oki combo finishers, instead of the now staple magic series > beam super (unless youâre guaranteeing a character kill, obviously).
Either way, personally I cannot wait for the game to drop. Havenât felt this excited for a fighter since I started with KI.
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I know this is a bit off topic, but since you brought up the viewer experienceâŠ
When I watch Marvel I just see lengthy combos into supers into bounce into continued combos. I donât really see much in the way of strategy playing out (even though Iâm sure itâs there for the players). Granted Iâm not a very informed viewer and Marvel has good viewing numbers. Am I just that slow or do people like to just see the bright lights and flashes?
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I think Marvelâs combos are pretty uninteresting to watch for the most part. Itâs cool at the beginning, and then again if there are unique shells and a need for improvisation within the combo, but a large part of Marvel is about finding the guaranteed bnbâs and working those to perfection. Lightning loops ceased to be cool to watch a looooong time ago, and some of mvciâs strings are also already getting kind of boring to watch IMO.
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@STORM179, whatâs your opinion about the gameâs zoning?
As far as I saw during my limited time playing the beta, there are plenty of tools to face zoning(homing dash, deflect, supers, teleportâŠ), but all of them has some short of con(weak to physical attacks, long recovery if fails, needs meterâŠ), and when a lvl 3 punisher is avaible(or even worse,Gohan has full meter!), zoning may be quite difficult
As far as I see, all characters who have zoning tools are capable enough to handle themselves quite well whithout actually using they zoning tools, so I can sense a nice balance here, promoting intelligent approach/space control instead of mindless rushdown/zoning
Whatâs your opinion on that?