Dealing with pressure

#61

I think practically taking his meter away was the wrong direction balance-wise. He already had a hard time with having meter to shadow counter. Every change they’ve made hurt his meter gain, in fact, in instinct even though you can pip cancel for free, it still does the regular amount of damage to your spin speed, so actually using his instinct sets you up for absolutely no meter once its over.

I’d have much, much preferred IG kept his meter gain the same from s2, but increase the cost of pip cancels, maybe 1 pip for extra fireballs, 2 pips for everything else. Just my two cents.

#62

That’s a perfectly fine opinion to have on his overall balance, but I have to say I don’t think it’d actually help Gore’s defense all that much. You get one, maybe two extra defensive SC’s per match with the S2 meter mechanics (if you’re winning, you’ve got ample meter in either season), both of which can be baited just as much as any other SC in the game.

Shadow counters are absolutely potent defensive tools, don’t get me wrong. But Fulgore with all the meter in the world to SC and no DP is a much worse defensive character than having a DP and never having any meter to shadow counter. If you just absolutely must have all three options on defense, maybe Jago is someone you might want to try out?

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#63

Actually I do think Orchid is a top tier defensive character (along Jago, Fulgore, and maybe Cinder or something). Fulgore is better than her overall when you look at complete toolsets, but just as far as defensive DPs goes, Orchid is up there too.

Nah, hopefully you don’t get that impression. Feel free to ask for help and ask us to clarify points you want more information on.

I personally think you are overvaluing defensive shadow counters just a bit (they are just as baitable as DPs and they cost resources so you have a limited number of them, unlike DPs); having a good meterless DP is much more valuable than having more ready access to shadow counters. It’s why they are fine giving every character in the game the ability to shadow counter, but will give meterless DPs only to a few characters… they are very strong and not every character should get one.

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#64

The thing though is that just having the meter to shadow counter is technically a deterrent to certain things like a raw ragged edge or jago’s f hk. If your opponent doesn’t have meter you can pressure like crazy.

#65

Yeah, but you have other options against those things as Fulgore. Ragged edge is not plus on block for instance - if Wulf does it, it’s now your time to take your turn back. If you’re just holding pressure after you block ragged edge, then you are giving your opponent turns that he has not earned. If Jago does double roundhouse, he’s +2, and very rarely does someone put themselves at plus frames in front of you to then block. Disrespect his plus frames with your invincible DP to teach him that he doesn’t just get to sit there and frame trap you to death. Once he’s learned that lesson, then he is by definition giving you your turn back, irrespective of whether or not he’s plus.

No one likes being DP’d in the face. It’s annoying and frustrating, and forces you to give up your turn when you otherwise wouldn’t have to. Fulgore has access to this potent tool at all times; part of being able to use the character well is learning how to make the most of that fact.

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#66

dude, fulgore is all I play. honestly suffering his nerf made me a better player. over relying on meter made me soft and less thoughtful of my approach. that’s what it’s about. finally wiping the floor with that player won kicked ur butt 10 in a row. of course your gonna get wrecked a lot but try new stuff and relax during matches and to let the magic happen

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#67

not to be “that guy” but are your eyes focused on the opponent at all times? I don’t even look at my fulgore when in battle. I also anticipate my opponent looking at my meter and when I’m like 2 seconds away from 4 pips and I see pressure headed my way, it’s unexpected to use it straight away. use meter to gain meter. you might be looking at this the wrong way.

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#68

Not going to say much that hasn’t been said already, but IMO if you’re playing fulgore and getting pressured for so long, then I don’t think having access to a shadow counter more often would solve your issues.

Sounds to me like you either need to learn when to make proper use of backdash, DP and counter poking to interrupt/evade your opp’s pressure, or you need to give it a go with a more offensive based character.

Of all the strengths fulgore has, he definitely won’t get away without some good defense as he needs time to build his momentum. Maybe he just isn’t the character for you?

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#69

2 days ago I, also a Fulgore main, offered to run sets with you. Point out some weak points, maybe give you ways to cover up what you feel is weak about him. The help is here :slight_smile: just gotta sift through some shet to get to it. I’m in a similar boat where playing defensive I need to work on. So it would be good training.

GT - SullenMosquito same as Forum Name

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#70

Well if you think having a dp you can use at times to escape pressure isn’t enough…try playing a character with no true reversal…shadow counters are good. But they aren’t better to have than a true reversal. You get your shadow counter baited you just lost a bar. And there’s the chance you’re fighting a character who can make themselves safe from shadow counters such as aria eyedol omen Aganos hisako jago and others. A dp is a risk. So are shadow counters. But a dp is much less a risk because you’ll have alot more access to it than you would an sc. When a character like wulf is on you that’s simply when you have to calm down and make a read. Because eventually wulf is going to go for an over head a throw or dash through. Having a true reversal beats two of those options already. And simply throwing out a light will stuff dash through. Imagine someone like spinal or Sadira who doesn’t even have the option and they’re just stuck holding it. They go to sc…and wulf simply holds his overpower and punishes them.

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#71

dang I forgot about spinal and wulf. talk about ballz of steel holding against fulgore’s stupid block strings…as a 1 main character player, it’s hard to realize how much worse it can be.

#72

I’ll add you tonight, I’d definitely appreciate the help. Sorry for the late response, work has been busy.

#73

Wait, wait…Overpower comes out in 8 frames and not 5? =O I thougth it was 5

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#74

I know how it goes mate, been working upwards of 50-70 hours a week the past couple moving a store. Now I’m back to 40 finally.

#75

Heh. Overpower is amazing, but not quite that amazing :-p

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#76

I used that for reference regarding overpower. That’s why I was confused.

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#77

You aren’t wrong. IG isn’t on top of changing in game frame data. :open_hands:

#78

I believe in-game frame data for overpower is correct, though? I recently did Sabrewulf’s frame data and I don’t recall it being wrong. For example, I know for sure in-game data says overpower is +2/+2 on hit/on block, because I had the wrong number and had to double check and it turns out the in-game data was right. So I’m not too sure what this screenshot is showing.

#79

The frame data says it has 4 startup frames, but it should be a 7. I just confirmed it in training mode.

Though, the current frame data says +2/+2. That must be an old screenshot.

Edit: Nope, that screenshot is for slightly charged Overpower.

#80

That button is already the devil. Can you imagine how insane it’d be if came out as fast as a jab? :scream:

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