Dealing with pressure

#41

I don’t disagree, my point for bringing her up was NOT to debate balance, it was simply to point out that all of the reasoning behind why people were stating that fulgore is so good are not necessarily unique to him. While I’m not trying to insinuate that he’s bad, I really don’t think he’s as good as people make him out to be anymore. I still really struggle with intense pressure, you not only is it hard to get out of, but it also screws you over meter-wise for what seems like the rest of the match.

You can’t block and hope to have meter, you can’t teleport and hope to have meter, you can’t try to zone and hope to have mater.

I’ve had matches where 20 seconds in and after my first lifebar i’ve only accumulated 2 pips total.

#42

don’t worry man. the devs are keeping an eye on his meter gain. they’ll bump it up if need be. I dunno. id rather fulgore have options that aren’t taken away than to just neuter him just for the sake of meter.

I mean I’m all for ideas. maybe they can leave his spin speed as is and allow him to acquire 2 pips for a level 4 ender or something. I’m sure it’ll all be ironed out in the end.

#43

I think fulgore should get a pip ender but not have a meterless dp :joy: jk i just don’t like this character honestly. (From a combat design perspective).

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#44

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#45

I don’t understand how DP being enough for Fulgore’s defense=Orchid being top tier? Fulgore has a great backdash and DP which makes his defense good. Orchid has a great backdash and DP so her defense is also good. However defense isn’t the only factor for being top tier. [quote=“Paramisery, post:39, topic:20125”]
She also does more damage,
[/quote]

True but Fulgore can open you up way easier.[quote=“Paramisery, post:39, topic:20125”]
has a better neutral
[/quote]
This is up to debate.[quote=“Paramisery, post:39, topic:20125”]
and can essentially pip cancel her slide into DP for free.
[/quote]

K.

Fulgore can deal with intense pressure by using dps. He doesn’t just have a DP either. He has a great backdash. Fulgore is a momentum character. If you get going and build up the momentum, you are going to do well. If the opponent takes the momentum back, Fulgore is going to struggle. He doesn’t struggle much due to being able to turn the tides around with his DP which some characters don’t even have. He has a meterless DP while some characters like TJ Combo needs meter to do it. Sometimes, you just need to deal with the pressure. Eventually, the opponent will either be finished with the pressure and it’s your turn or they will have a gap in the pressure where you can dp them. If you can provide an example where you are struggling, I can try to help out :smiley:

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#46

If you play smart you can generate lots of meter while doing teleport mixups. The reasoning behind Fulgore being good, isn’t solely that he has a dp. He has zoning, rushdown, full screen basically anywhere hit confirms, 2 invincible reversals, and oh soo much more. Spinal is great with skulls, because he can cancel things, but he has no wakeup game. Fulgore is great with pips because he can cancel things, but he does have a wakeup game, and isn’t reliant on his cancels. It’s hard to explain unless I actually watched you play, but people rely on pip cancels too much, learn some meterless setups, and you’ll be able to fish out the meter you didn’t have before. Do some short unbreakables for spin speed. Or do some poke Jab pressure into tick throws. Those are very good for spin speed.

#47

You completely missed my point…I know orchid isn’t top tier, but after days of people posting that since fulgore has dp he doesn’t need anything else, I used orchid as an example of a character that isn’t top tier but has that same tool. Clearly just having a dp isn’t enough.

#48

No one said that though. They said that Fulgore has a dp in addition to the standard defensive tools is enough for Fulgore to deal with pressure. No one said that Fulgore has a DP so he doesn’t need anything else.

#49

And regarding his meter, I don’t think it would be so bad if the last 6 patches weren’t all about destroying his spin speed and THEN changing his instinct to not build meter after.

Had the instinct change been the only s3 meter change it might not feel so bad. But in all reality, however good you thought fulgore was before, he can only be that guy for 15 seconds now.

#50

Standard defensive tools? Like what other than dp and backdash?

#51

Blocking.

#52

Right, but STANDARD blocking gives you meter, which in turn gives you more options, blocking with fulgore not only doesn’t give you meter, it slows down your spin speed to almost nothing. There is nothing standard about this character, either on offense or defense.

#53

Be what guy for 15 seconds? A mixup vortex blender monster? He can do that off any confirmed hit. Unlike most Fulgore’s, I spent a lot of time learning how to not need his meter/pip cancels to preform offense, and only use it to enhance what I developed to make the timing different and less predictable. The Fulgore that is now, you have to go in and get your meter. That’s just how it is. His advantage is that, if they give you space, you can get your in almost for free with a proper mixup. Then you can go into vortex mode. If they block one, you just do another setup or a safe normal and give yourself space to go back in when you want. If you get control of the match, it’s on the player not the character to stop you. If your setups are on point, dp’s trade, shadow’s whiff, meter get’s wasted and you still got your hit anyways. Just watch Nicky’s games, tell me how much meter he actually uses. It isn’t much.

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#54

It’s pretty simple. Block until you find a chance to use your other tools. Fulgore has a free invincible reversal. That alone makes his defense better than Sabrewulf, Thunder, Spinal, Tj, etc. Just block until the opponent does something punishable. He eventually will. This game has nothing that is an infinite block string for free. There will either be something punishable or will be a gap somewhere you can DP the opponent and start to build meter.

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#55

Well again, my apologies for being too stupid to understand that simple concept. Thanks to everyone who responded seriously but I pretty much regret ever asking for help.

#56

Relax. Nobody is calling you stupid. No reason to insult yourself either. And never regret asking for help. Some will give solid advice, some won’t. It’s up to you to decide what’s worth learning, and what’s not.

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#57

I get that, but I’m getting incredibly frustrated with the game, and its almost as if you’re not allowed to ask for help if you use a character that’s strong. Further, with how crazy ki I still don’t think just having a dp is good enough. I straight up hate never having meter, id rather have it and be able to choose to use it offensively or defensively rather than not getting it practically at all, but having it offensively only for free for 15 seconds. I also don’t get why people still think the character is s++ tier. I won’t argue that he can do anything with meter but he really never has any now. Basically, what I’ve taken away from this is that defensively he’s a monster due to dp and backdash and that its simple.

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#58

Whoa there fella, it ain’t all that.

You asked for help. People provided help. I can ALMOST guarantee that no matter how much Fulgore players lobby for more or better defensive options, they won’t get them. So, the best advice is to learn to use (and practice using) the options that you have - specifically DPing out of pressure (and taking advantage of larger gaps w/ jab), which provides a nice little boost to spin. This isn’t being mean or malicious, it’s literally the best advice anyone can give you, and ultimately the only meaningful advice you will receive. You can take it or leave it, that’s up to you.

And really, if you’re so frustrated w/ Fulgore, try a different character maybe? Jago has a remarkably similar kit, but with better meter gain and slightly different (better?) neutral options, at the cost of a proper vortex.

Ain’t nothing to get so fussy about.

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#59

Maybe try thinking of it from the offenses point of view. When you pressure someone why do you do what you do? You do the strings that keep you safe and provide you as many opportunities to land a hit as possible right? If a character you’re fighting has nothing invincible then you have nothing to worry about and can get away with some really long strings. If a character you’re fighting needs meter to do something invincible then you have to play more carefully and can’t pressure them as freely when they have meter, but without meter you get to go ham on then. However if the character you’re fighting has a meterless invincible move then you can never freely pressure them because it is always a threat, but if you notice that the player you’re fighting isn’t willing to use their DP through your strings then you get to pressure them as freely as a character that doesn’t have anything invincible.

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#60

Mostly because she isn’t crazy potent at all ranges (and for the record, Fulgore’s neutral and pressure are both superior to hers). Whatever issues people have with Orchid, “struggles on defense” isn’t one of them. But there’s more to what makes a character good than just how solid they are defensively, and Fulgore tends to excel there as well. He has a very strong vortex, pressure options that are often difficult to shadow counter, good zoning capability, and surprisingly good normals to boot. Those are the things that make people say he’s top tier.

Genuine question @Paramisery - if Fulgore’s defense is not strong enough as-is, what other tools would you like to have to make things better for him against heavy-pressure characters? I’m curious what it is that you’re looking for, because as far as defensive options go, meterless DP and great backdash are kind of the gold standard. Not trying to make you feel stupid or put-upon; genuinely interested in what else you want here.

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