Dealing with pressure

#21

Which character is pressuring you and what are they doing, specifically? If you’re blocking for 10 seconds (maybe an exaggeration), I doubt that the entirety of that pressure is plus on block. If they’re continually doing a bunch of stuff that’s minus on block, then all you have to do is press a jab to stop it.

#22

Lots of characters, but I’d probably say wulf is the worst.

#23

I don’t know how Fulgore crushes Wulf’s lows. If the Wulf is mashing c.lp and c.mp it will give you problems no doubt (it will work against Fulgore overhead resets if it’s a c.lp most of the times).
Even you have to frame trap them (not sure which ones Gore have) zone them out or take them out of their pokes. Medium laser at certain distance and medium kick would keep them away. Then you should confuse the rivals with teleports and that crazy things Fulgore does. But point blank…I haven’t figure how to beat Wulf’s pokes at that distance with my Fulgore, apart from blocking and dping.

Do you have gameplay footage of your Fulgore? maybe we can give you a hand with it.

#24

[quote=“Paramisery, post:19, topic:20125”]
“He’s far and away the best character in the game” line of thought?
[/quote] no. This is a thing for anyone with a dp or true reversal whether its fulgore orchid jago whoever. You have the option to disrupt someone’s pressure. Key is knowing when it’s better to throw one out and when to just block. Once you get them to respect your dp and they try to bait it out and block then you get to take your turn.

4 Likes
#25

It really is just a matter of deciding whether or not to mash out DP. If you’re convinced that it wont work because it can be baited, you’ve already lost. If they are halting their pressure to bait your DP, then you are out of pressure without having to do anything.

pipcancel DP should be able to beat every SC - so long as you have a pip, react to the screen freeze w DP and boom, no SC. It’s difficult, but difficulty is meaningless when discussing possibility.

Same is true of DPing out of pressure. It may be difficult (it’s not, really), but it is a powerful option to have. Better even than a SC.

I really don’t get why Fulgore players are so uppity about SCs though. You have very very good non-SC defensive options (short of 0f parries), and despite your meter differences, they are still cheaper than anyone other than Omens. And you can’t be SCd out of your own offense, which is disgusting as it is.

Cmon now.

#26

Again, you are using the words “hope for the best” and “play recklessly” whether you’re talking about offense or defense. I think there is more you can do to analyze your opponent’s patterns. Fighting games are not about just picking a move, doing it, and hoping it works (whether it’s an offensive mixup or a defensive DP or backdash). The vast majority of the actions you take should be with a purpose, because you have a reason to believe it will work. They won’t always work, but you should understand what you are trying to beat and take a deliberate action towards that.

If you are blocking for 10 seconds, then you should either DP or you should take a bit more of a careful look at the moves that you are blocking, look at the frame data and decide if you can push a button. If your DPs are continually being blocked or avoided, then you are either not blocking for 10 seconds or your opponents simply have a read on your habits and you’ll need to adjust your patterns.

4 Likes
#27

Remember people:
Mash that DPM+FP,
It’ll beat footsies with priority,
In every situation you can mash DPM+FP,
For a three hit combo OTG.

1 Like
#28

It does not. Cinder, Aria, Aganos, Omen, Hisako, Tusk, Mira and Orchid will not get interrupted if you DP after they shadow counter laser. You will simply waste a pip

2 Likes
#29

Whoawaitwhaaaa… for real? I was thinking Aganos & TJ maybe not cuz of armor (Thunder too?) but… huh. That sucks I guess. Is it just a spatial thing (whiffing DP) or… do you have further insights? Is it a particular strength of DP that doesn’t work, or do none work?

Obviously, I was popping off at the mouth before spending a year in the lab trying to DP some SC’s. Whoopos.

#30

I don’t know for sure, but from labbing it up I would assume for each case it would be either a question of priority (shadow move beating special) or hit boxes (shadow move going below DP and hitting it after invincible frames). DP strength doesn’t affect this scenario. I’ll lab it up some more some time. Let’s not get too off the thread’s topic though

3 Likes
#31

There’s an existing thread on this topic actually. Was specifically about Aganos’ SC beating pip-cancel DP, but expanded into some of the other characters as well. Is basically just a hitbox thing.

2 Likes
#32

/end thread

The people’s champ has spoken. :wink:

#33

Lol. I appreciate the sentiment, but if he has an honest question it’s probably better for people to respond like Infil and Climax and others than what I said :sweat_smile:

With regards to Fulgore struggling with pressure though, I genuinely don’t think that having meter would necessarily make his defense all that much better. It would mean you couldn’t pressure as much with easily SC-able options (Jago double roundhouse, Wulf ragged edge), but other forms of pressure are more prevalent and just as if not more dangerous. SC’s are as baitable as DP’s, so TC’s worries wouldn’t necessarily be alleviated even if Fulgore did have easier access to meter. If you’re looking for good defense in KI, Gore is pretty darn near the top of the list.

DP’s are a guess? Well, yeah, they are. They also serve the incredibly important role of letting your opponent know what he is and isn’t allowed to do to you on offense, and a big part of the game (any FG really) is knowing when and where to make that statement. Developing an understanding of how your opponent wants to pressure and how to check them is a big part of becoming a better FG player.

Specifically with regards to Wulf, he’s not really a character that can pressure you for long periods of time without giving you your turn, unless he’s using overpower (which the entire cast has issues dealing with, and which is a heck of a lot more manageable when you have a DP). The other stuff he’s going to hit you with might be fast, confusing, and/hard to react to, but the bottom line is that Wulf doesn’t get to maintain “real” pressure for very long. Cr.mk and overpower are the only plus frame frame-trappy things you’re likely to see consistently; all his other options are either negative or flat out punishable, even if you don’t have a 3-frame DP to go to.

When he’s plus, toss out a DP or two to let him know you don’t care about his frames, and then switch to playing solid once he gets the message. When he’s negative, take your turn back with normals - Fulgore has some really good ones actually.

#34

HEY, please, play nice :pray:

#35

All good points. And my post was more for humor than an actual critique of the thread. Just in good fun.

#36

All of wulf’s plus options:

move: startup, block/hit
cr.lk: 5 frame startup, +4/+5
cr.lp: 5 frame startup, +2/+3
st.lk: 7 frame startup, +3/+5
cr.mk: 6 frame startup, +2/+4
st.mk: 8 frame startup, +2/+7(!!!)
back hp: 8 frame startup, +2/+2 with late cancel

6 Likes
#37

I didn’t know this actually. Thanks Climax!

#38

oh no. I said a few posts above the one you replied to the exact same thing, options for meter…etc. that was just a one off comment. I totally agree.

I only through out random dps when it’s apparent the opponent try’s to take his turn back after something punishable. other than that I use it for trades or DP out of certain shadow counters.

1 Like
#39

So if the general consensus is that DP is more than enough for Fulgore’s defense, then why isn’t Orchid considered top tier? She’s got a DP that beats or at least trades with Fulgore’s. She also does more damage, has a better neutral, and can essentially pip cancel her slide into DP for free.

For what its worth though, I did not set out to make this a debate about balance, I simply want to know how Fulgore deals with intense pressure, I just can’t buy the “DP is enough” logic in a game as crazy as KI.

#40

Her mixup game is significantly less oppressive. She struggles for the same reasons Wulf struggles, if kept out, they can’t do anything. Fulgore can still do stuff. Less Damage More Tools.