Dead or Alive 6!


#142

You want me to ask my wife to answer since she can play the WOMAN card? If you don’t want to hear what people think then stop posting on a forum. It’s not my fault there aren’t more women in here.

I don’t owe you a solution to your problem. I don’t have to work out a compromise between our positions. I am not required to meet your needs, just like I am not required to buy DoA6.


#143

Neither of these things is true.


#144

My mom always told me that you can’t just poopoo other people’s ideas without offering alternatives. Sure, if you want your wife to weigh in, great! But don’t just say “I don’t like that and want it to change” without offering suggestions to fix them.


#145

Did you even READ your own post! How is that not what you’re telling me! ■■■■■ is gross, keep it away from me” Breasts are the equivalent of ■■■■ in your metaphor. Therefor, by the transitive property, breasts are just as gross and to be ashamed of as ■■■■.


#146

I’ve offered examples of sexy empowered female game characters. But your “given” is that they must be essentially naked or you don’t like it. I’m not playing some demented game of “how can I make @CausingThought6 happy?”

All you have to do is go play Doa6. The game we are all talking about exists, and is coming out soon. Or you can play DoA5.

I don’t need to write up a fictional workplan for a better DOA game that we both can like.

I am now finished with this thread. I should have bowed out long ago.


#147

But he’s not saying that you’re wrong for liking that OR that you’re liking something wrong. He’s saying that he doesn’t like something and he’s stating why.

There’s a difference between disagreeing with someone’s opinion and telling them that they’re wrong for having it. He disagrees with your opinion, but nowhere in any of his posts did he even hint at the idea that you were wrong for having your opinion. If you took it that way, then I think I’m relatively safe in assuming he didn’t mean it that way.

Why not? Why can’t he just say he doesn’t like something. People do that on forums all the time. I get that you want him to offer solutions to his issues with the game, but he’s by no means required to do so, especially when his solutions aren’t at all likely to show up in the game, so what’s the point?

Wow, you’re really reading in to that. He used an example of something that’s appropriate and not appropriate in certain situations. How about this. Yelling “FIRE!” outside of a burning building is appropriate. Yelling “FIRE!” inside a crowded theater where there is no fire is not appropriate. There is no transitive property. I’m not comparing female body parts to fire. That’s all he was saying with his analogy and you took it in a completely different direction that went far beyond his intention.

Alright, I’ll offer my own take then. You don’t have to agree with it or like it, but this is personally how I’d like to see women in DOA depicted:

-Lose the panty shots
-Lose the jiggle physics
-Get rid of the pervy ability to use a camera on posed women
-Stop having adult women sound or act like they’re young girls
-Stop sexualizing teenage girls

Those things to me are just a given at this point. But here are some more:

-Vary women’s body types. Some athletic women have larger breasts, while many are average sized or smaller, some women are relatively flat chested, some women have some muscle on them, calves, hips, broad shoulders, some even have six packs or a slight gut. Instead of having every woman in the game be a size zero with giant breasts, mix it up a little and make them look more realistic instead of like blow up dolls.

-Make women look like their ethnicity / more realistic. Most Asian women aren’t pale white. No women have large, round doe eyes. A vast majority of women have moles, scars, acne, arm hair, birth marks… Some type of texture to their skin.

-As far as clothing, I’d say get rid of all the swimsuits and BDSM gear. Match clothing to the character types. Tina is a wrestler who’s default outfit is bikini top that does an absolute yeoman’s job keeping her massive bosom hidden. How about putting some wrestling gear on her? Athletic boots, knee pads, trunks, some type of flashy spandex design for a top that doesn’t make me think her breasts are in danger of popping out?

Here are some examples.

That’s Kairi Sane and Shayna Baszler, two women from WWE’s NXT promotion. Notice the boots, the knee pads, the elbow pads, the tops that don’t feature giant, heaving bosoms, etc.

That said, there are also plenty of showier outfits that some might find sexier, but aren’t bikinis.

They all have a style to them that reflect their characters, but they also look like they’re actually ready to wrestle in a pro wrestling match. It’s athletic attire that’s also sexy. To me, that’s as far as I’d want to see Tina go in that direction and I think it makes sense for her as a character.

After that though, I think there are options for characters that make sense for who they are, who could still look badass and have some allure to them without being objectifying. You can create a female ninja who’s not dressed like a school girl or a dominatrix. You can show a little skin here and there, just as men show skin, and do it to show off their powerful physiques.

Some examples:

kunoichi

Tell me you wouldn’t feel like a badass using this character:

To be clear, DOA has some options for characters:

This look for Kasumi is light years ahead of her school girl outfits. That’s really all I’m looking for honestly. Just some evolution in character designs. They’re video game characters, so of course they’re going to look good, but give them a bit of realism as well. Some muscle tone, realistic curves, realistic faces, outfits that match their profession.

They can obviously have other outfits and I’m sure some will show varying amounts of skin. I’m not against that. Again, not a prude. I’m against the fetishizing and objectification of women. That’s my vision for a DOA that can be taken more seriously.

I know you won’t like at least some of this and that’s fine. We can obviously disagree. No problem. You seem to think that some of the more fetishized stuff is empowering and I don’t. That’s fine. I think there’s at least some stuff here you might agree with or even like, but we won’t agree on everything.


#148

Okay. I see your point. I think Tina and Kasumi’s current primary outfit (as demonstrated by the wiki) actually fits your critique as far as the outfits go. And I could get behind them going further in that direction… i guess… I don’t know though. Something still feels off. It’s like, I want to agree with you and see no reason not too, but something deep down in my soul is telling me that I shouldn’t.

Well, to be fair, I can totally get behind…

But I would argue that the jiggle physics need ti simply be toned down, rather than completely removed. Breasts move, it’s unavoidable unless you strap them down in a way that would be completely uncomfortable and distracting during a fight.

And this

This is half a legitimate criticism and half a critique on the anime art style in general. I’ve always said that people in anime don’t look the least bit Asian. So i can get behind that, especially if they wanted to go for a level of realism closer to MK or KI.

I don’t know. I think it would be an interesting art/design project to take on. I just… I don’t know. I don’t want to put in more of my own personal issues. I’ve already done that enough.


#149

As is usual, the time difference here does me no favors when trying to watch topics that might get a bit heated :sweat: The moment has passed and the conversation has moved on a bit, but I will say @CausingThought6 that is not great practice to respond to what you think someone has said instead of what they actually say.

Andy provided examples of strong and attractive female characters in a fighting game. I wrote a medium-long post going into characters I think are sexy in interesting and unique ways, and stated my general aversion to the practice of slapping a bikini or lingerie on a pornstar physique and calling it a day. Those are the things that were said, and you chose not to address them at all. Which is fine - you are not obligated to engage every idea presented to you. If you are going to continue the discussion though, then it behooves everyone that you engage with the substance of what is being said.

Andy’s analogy was meant to show that context is important. The point isn’t that breasts are ■■■■ - it’s that a huge focus on them or other sexual tropes in contexts that make no sense isn’t particularly edifying or empowering. I’ll go one step further and say that as it’s used in DOA (let’s make a ton of money selling sexy police uniforms to our 95% male audience) it’s just downright pandering. At best. That’s a strong opinion, but it’s how I feel about it, and it’s how a lot of my female friends who are into gaming feel about it too.

I’ve interacted with you enough to have at least a basic idea of why you feel how you feel about this. But anecdote is anecdote, and my experiences, necessarily different from your own, have disinclined me to think that most women find girls doing battle in skimpy school uniforms is liberating. My gripe isn’t that video game characters can’t be sexy or idealized - it’s that an attractive design can also be interesting. Having a street fight in something out of Victoria’s Secret isn’t interesting, and is absurd to the point of parody.


#150

I would just like to remind everyone that one of the pre-order bonuses include some professional wrestling-inspired costumes

I like Ayane’s pants there. I’m a fan of those kinds of half & half designs


#151

Ryu Hayabusa seems to be an Xbox exclusive according to the Japanese text in the image you posted (maybe old news…)


#152

That’s kind of surprising to me. I figured we were over the era of console exclusive characters or costumes at this point. Guess not :-p


#153

The history between TN and Xbox is pretty unique actually. One of the few Japanese developers to support the Original Xbox and who initially preferred the XB over PS for their 3D Ninja gaiden reboot. Nice gesture that they show this kind of love for XB players even though Japanese Xbox players (who have seen thid ad) are probably not going to move the needle for them (or switched to PS4 ).


#154

No it’s totally fine. You like what you like. I’m just throwing out my own ideas for how DOA could ease off the gas a bit on the T&A stuff. I’m not saying every character has to be completely covered or whatever, but I tend to find that more unique designs come from having clothing options beyond bathing suit attire.

I could be totally wrong on this (I’ve never worn one before), but aren’t sports bras supposed to help with comfort, rather than having them flop around when you’re running or jumping etc? I’m not saying they have to be completely stationary, but there’s a substantial middle ground that makes sense between where they’re at currently and no movement at all. I think we agree on this, yeah?

Yeah DOA is kinda strange in that the graphics are so good, that it makes characters with certain anime-like attributes seem odd and out of place. To be fair, I don’t think it’s as bad as it once was. Well, the eyes, I mean. The skin tone still seems really odd to me, but maybe that’s also a cultural thing?

Either way, I think a level of realism closer to MK or KI would certainly be welcome. I’m not trying to make it in to something it’s not, but when you’re doing that well on the graphics to begin with, why not go all the way?

No problem, and thanks for the feedback! I think we actually agree on a lot of this stuff, even if you’re somewhat reluctant on other aspects. Again though, that’s totally fine by me. We don’t have to agree on anything, but it’s cool that we found some common ground. :slight_smile:


#155

No problem. You’re right. It turns out we do agree on a lot of stuff.


#156

jeez what i miss? lolol

i dont mind sexy character designs at all. its cool having really hot chics in a videogame, it is fantasy afterall and not real. i will also say, that having sexy outfits doesnt always have to equate to having straight up lingerie outfits and g-strings as well. storm brought up a good point with sadira’s outfit. sometimes, hiding parts of an attractive woman’s body is hot, sadira pulled that kind of flavor off id say. it also applies to the real world when one is going to be intimate with their loved one and it adds to the allure while spicing things up.

they dont always have to be butt naked to get the point across. i also dont mind DOA 6 potentially having bikini outfits either, big whoop thats always been how the game’s series has looked when it comes to the girls.

that said, i wont be buying DOA 6 lol, not because the girls are getting covered up with default outfits or whatever, but simply for the reason i just dont care to play it atm. im busy with soul calibur and playing my switch.


#157

I don’t like most of the “sexy” costumes… The thing is, I just don’t use them. :man_shrugging:


#158

I’m afraid that I need the PS4 version (more Japanese crossover costumes in the future I’d imagine) if I decide to buy this game. At the moment there are no VF characters :roll_eyes: yet…so I can wait lol. This year will be weapon based FGs only thanks to SC6 and Samurai Showdown :smile:


#159

Season Pass 1 $92.99 on Xbox. Either I’m high or this sounds insane. lol Wonder what Season Pass 2 will cost? Maybe it’s just me but I consider DOA the Rockband of fighters. Instead of songs, there are a million outfits. After all, you can only wear one at a time. Do people really need a million outfits? Or again… am I just high and missing something? :slight_smile: I haven’t turned on my PS4 in weeks so not sure if the Season pass cost the same.


#160

Jesus ■■■■ what’s in it for that much money!?!


#161

We’d actually have to find someone crazy enough to buy it I think for the answer to that question. I’m just gonna make a guess and say lots of outfits, but who knows. I’ve never seen a season pass that cost more than the actual game before so this is all new to me. I’m gonna pass on this game for now.