This. People tend to not use counter breakers because of the risk. It seems that now Counter Breakers are now going to be seen even less because being broken has less risk.
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Their loss.
I think the proposed changes sound great! I can’t wait to see them implemented.
< shrug > I dunno, I kind of think it’s a loss for everyone. I think counter breakers are still the absolute most hype mechanic in the game, and it’s almost criminal how undervalued they are by the community. Any change that makes them even more likely to go unused is a loss to me as a viewer, and it makes trying to bait them as a player (say, break someone twice, do nothing on the third opening) more difficult to do.
As I said, I like that the defender gets to mess with the offense’s head within combo. If the incentive for breaking now doesn’t mean as much, then a portion of that mind game goes away and flows into other portions of the game that are already relatively stable.
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Totally agree.
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Of course I want to see more counter breakers in tournaments. That’s the reason I love watching Thompxson. But buffing them could throw off the balance quite a bit if you ask me.
What those players really want is to have their counter breaker be completely risk free, and that’s never going to happen.
Also, keep in mind that because of the extra PD delay proposed in this change, missed counter breakers will be less punishing to an extent.
Omen would still be able to use Demonic Despair to inflict 100% PD, but the move would lose all of its invulnerability, making it as hard to land as it was in Season 2.
Kiets if I can land it now the way I do without being hit will I be able to still hit it if my opponent does not break or block it ?
I never suggested buffing counter breakers - I think the risk/reward on them is tuned very well right now. I just think the combo system as a whole is well tuned currently, and am wondering (hoping) that the proposed change doesn’t further marginalize something that, although well tuned, isn’t necessarily used to full effect even now.
That’s my only concern. I don’t think counter breakers need to be buffed - I think players need to stop thinking their opening from super-strong KI-style pressure should net them automatic damage and a setup with no risk or downside to themselves.
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KIETS PLEEEEAASE! 
Edit: I actually welcome this change. Breaking is a really strong tool but if you treat it less as a get out card and more of a tactical decision while being comboed then I’m down for it.
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Agreed. But omen players will be less likely to hit a 25 frame grab with no invincibility. You need extreme yomi and if you don’t position where you do the move you got to chase them fullscreen again.
We haven’t, no. Counter breakers are still high risk (moderate risk in practice) high reward option, and a key part of the anti-breaking mindgame. Getting 50-60% guaranteed is still vastly better than getting broken and MAYBE getting back into reclaim half of the PD you earned in the previous attempt. It all plays out quite nicely in our tests, which is why we wanted to put it in front of the players to gather their thoughts before (maybe) pulling the trigger.
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Omen players do have a easy setup to land dd I hope they don’t change that then it’s fine by me
Dit you see my question about omen DD ?
It will be exactly as it was in Season 2. Which is exactly as it is now, minus the strike invulnerability.
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(I only read the top post) Sound awesome! This would also make it a better gamble to try for a really long combo.
Nothing we can really do about that, unfortunately.
Then I am down with the change its really interesting to see it role out from my experience with killer instinct so far after patch 3.4 this is a new great change for the game as long as characters that rely on pd don’t loose there thing (cinder Raam mira etc they will probably be fine ) then this will definitely make ki more hype in casual and pro play thanks for the feedback kiets 
First, @TheKeits, thanks for the opportunity. You can cut and paste everyone’s enthusiasm for these types of interactions with the community and add my +1. You can see people in the community are taking this seriously and already this is one of the coolest threads we have goin.
I’m going to go into probably too much detail on why I think this, so just to make it easy on you I will skip to the punchline. I think it’s definitely worth trying. I think it has the potential to alter the game in ways I like with not very much potential to cause problems.
My first thought was just that the vast majority of players are probably not going to notice this all that much. Managing your potential damage is a pretty high level skill, and even though this will definitely have an impact on the game, a lot of players will not realize it. That’s okay. I also think that people should keep this in perspective. It’s a tweak not a radical proposition for the game until or unless you are talking about the PD characters who manage PD with special tools or traits.
My first thought was “how is this going to affect Cinder?” He’s the character who most obviously manages PD in his game. And I think it will positively influence people to do his burnout ender more often - which I like. Personally, I favor long, high damage combos so one of my big weaknesses with Cinder is when I do a burnout, I am frequently broken on the next combo before I cash it out. I don’t think this change will make me more successful with Cinder, but I think it definitely encourages me to try for burnout damage rather than always cashing in his relatively weak damage ender. For Omen’s Demonic Despair, it seems a little too helpful that he gets to keep half of the PD even if he fails his one chance break combo, but DD is such a small part of even Omen’s gameplan that I honestly don’t see this suddenly becoming a more viable strategy because he gets a second chance at a big but likely not fatal chunk of damage. For RAAM and Mira I would just encourage you to be gentle with their PD nerfs.
As far as “behavior modification” for players, high level tournament play and “hype,” here are my thoughts - take them or leave them. I think this will encourage longer combos, which I very much like. KI with constant one chance break combos is not what I really want. I want bigger combos. I also think that if the game balance moves toward longer combos, then counter breakers will become more viable rather than less. I know @STORM179 disagrees because why take the risk when you can just open in neutral and get half your PD back anyway? And certainly he has better credentials for understanding high level play than I do, but it seems to me that longer combos means more break chances, more opportunities to build confidence in predicting your opponents behavior and more opportunities to try to swing for the fence with a well timed counter breaker. Like I said, I could be wrong about this.
As far as what’s hype, yes counter breakers are a super hype mechanic. Partly because they are not so easy to pull off at high level. But I also think any huge decisions lead to tense moments and hype is all about tense moments. Despite the high level players always wanting the game to be predictable and guess free, the audience doesn’t think it’s hype when a player benefits from dozens of incremental decisions that lead to victory. They want that one moment - the wakeup DP, the super combo, the counter breaker, the “I put it all on the line and won/lost” moment is hype. The Poker highlight reel is always people going all in, not clips of a series of solid and conservative decisions laid out on a path to victory. So, building PD and keeping it in play will lead to more hype. If the audience can become accustomed to thinking of the PD as a “real” thing to keep track of in the ebb and flow of a match, then they will watch that creep up. As it creeps up, the tension over each potential opening will go up and this may well ratchet up the hype as well.
And looking at it, who does this hurt? Well, it definitely makes guess breaking (and any breaking) lower reward. That’s not really bad, in my opinion. At most levels people break way too much as it is. At high levels people are already playing in a low chance break mentality. It is a bit of an “anti” comeback mechanic, in that it rewards the offensive player and makes it harder for the player who’s losing to make up for their earlier mistakes. But I don’t see this as being an overwhelming issue. It is not harmful, per se, to people who play one chance and reset heavy styles unless you take the “everyone else got buffed so now I am nerfed” mentality. I think some characters like Tusk, who can sometimes get a lot of damage outside of combo might fall into this category, but I can’t make any strong case that this change is going to substantially hurt them.
So, yeah, I’m for it. I don’t think this is going to have dramatic effects on the game. It’s a tweak. But it moves people toward longer combos and in my opinion that’s a good thing.
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@TheKeits would it be feasible to stream some in-house matches with the PD adjustment to give us an idea of how the actual play would be differently without committing it further than it already is? It sounds like it isn’t merged into an upcoming release branch yet, so if there’s a way to see it without doing so that should be a win-win and help with extra feedback.
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