Combat Feedback Wanted; Help Shape the Future of KI! (Breakers and Potential Damage)

General Discussion
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Hello, Killer Instinct community!

The combat team has been testing some big changes internally. We are always looking for ways to improve the balance and fun of KI’s combat system, and we have a idea we’d like to get your opinions on.

We know it can be frustrating when you earn an opening and your opponent breaks your combo. In Season 1, a breaker caused a hard knockdown, leaving you very vulnerable. In Season 2, a breaker caused a soft knockdown, allowing you to quickrise and leaving you less vulnerable. In Season 3, breakers cause a flipout, putting you right back in the action. As I’m sure you’ll agree, each season has made getting your combo broken a bit less punishing.

As we all know, a successful breaker from your opponent restores 100% of their potential damage. What if it didn’t? What if we took another step in the direction we were already heading (that of reducing the reward for a successful breaker) and made it so that breaking only restored 50% of their potential damage? And what if the delay before potential damage started healing back was a second or two longer? Some of the reward you’d earned from hitting your opponent would be still be left on the table for you to claim. Longer combos would leave more pressure on the opponent, even if broken, because more potential damage would be around for you to take.

We’ve tested this internally and we really like it. With this change, if you are dominating in neutral you should win a bit faster. And of course, a bunch of potential-damage-related balance changes would come along with this. Characters that inflict a lot of PD (Cinder, Mira, RAAM, etc) would see reductions in the amount they inflict because it affects the game more. Omen would still be able to use Demonic Despair to inflict 100% PD, but the move would lose all of its invulnerability, making it as hard to land as it was in Season 2.

We are eager to hear your opinions and read your thoughtful discussions about this potential balance change. The future of KI is in your hands. Let us know how you feel. If you have any questions about the specifics of how this works, tag me in this thread and I’ll be happy to answer them to keep the discussion as informed as possible.

-Keits, Lead Combat Designer

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I agree that this would go a long way towards fighting against people who are really solid breakers, but 50% can still be a huge chunk. Should the amount of PD you retain after a successful break be relative to the Ender level? Maybe the reward for pushing through to a level 4 combo and having it broken should be that your opponent maintains the maximum amount of PD (in this case, 50%) but lower Ender levels would maintain increasingly lower amounts of PD.

In my opinion this would make players WANT to go for level 4 combos as often as possible (rather than going for lots of short ones) because even if their combo gets broken they have a lot higher reward which they can still pick up and cash out. In turn, it can lead to more counter breakers because the higher the PD builds, the more likely the player is to try and break.

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Can I just say that I freaking love this post? I love this kind of interaction where you directly ask us for feedback on a change like this and giving us details as to how it would affect the game. This is why KI devs are the best.

As far my response to the suggestion, I’d like to see it. I don’t have a strong opinion on this, but I am interested in seeing how this affects the game.

Poor Omen players though lol.

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Go fwd with the .5 PD for successful break and randomize flip outs, quick rise or hard knockdown.
Also can TJ get individual animations for each strength of this buttons. His auto barrage gets broken to easily.
He also wiffs or gets knocked out of his recapture during air to air too often.
Please review. Thanks!

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Just a friendly reminder to stay on topic please. If you have feedback about other balance or combat issues, or other parts of the game, please start a thread in the developer feedback subforum and have a discussion there. This thread should be exclusively about discussing the potential change listed in the OP.

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This seems like the kind of thing I would really have to get hands on time with to know how I feel about it. Would it be possible to have some kind of public testing phase?

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Hello Keits. We missed you. [quote=“TheKeits, post:1, topic:16126”]
We know it can be frustrating when you earn an opening and your opponent breaks your combo. In Season 1, a breaker caused a hard knockdown, leaving you very vulnerable. In Season 2, a breaker caused a soft knockdown, allowing you to quickrise and leaving you less vulnerable. In Season 3, breakers cause a flipout, putting you right back in the action. As I’m sure you’ll agree, each season has made getting your combo broken a bit less punishing.
[/quote]

I agree that each season has made getting your combo broken a bit less punishing.[quote=“TheKeits, post:1, topic:16126”]
As we all know, a successful breaker from your opponent restores 100% of their potential damage. What if it didn’t? What if we took another step in the direction we were already heading (that of reducing the reward for a successful breaker) and made it so that breaking only restored 50% of their potential damage? And what if the delay before potential damage started healing back was a second or two longer? Some of the reward you’d earned from hitting your opponent would be still be left on the table for you to claim. Longer combos would leave more pressure on the opponent, even if broken, because more potential damage would be around for you to take.
[/quote]

Interesting. This would encourage less one chance breaks and more longer combos. This would benefit the combo system greatly. I like it.

I don’t think agree with this aspect completely. I sort of agree but I don’t at the same time. Cinder is partially defined with his burnout which a nerf on the amount wouldn’t be really fair. Mira is completely a glass cannon so I don’t think more consistency but reduced results would match her gameplan. As for Raam, I think that would be fair that when broken, his instinct potential damage is completely removed but the normal pd from normal comboing stays. Omen needs the invincibility though IMO. Keep it as the same as Raam. If you break that, the pd is completely gone. That or reduce the amount of PD.[quote=“TheKeits, post:1, topic:16126”]
We are eager to hear your opinions and read your thoughtful discussions about this potential balance change. The future of KI is in your hands. Let us know how you feel. If you have any questions about the specifics of how this works, tag me in this thread and I’ll be happy to answer them to keep the discussion as informed as possible.
[/quote]

We are eager to have you back. Question though @TheKeits Does this change also apply to air breakers?

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Its better for Omen players though, theyre one chance after DD doesnt result in losing all that meter for nothing.

Retaining 50% PD + 1 or 2 sec pause sounds like a lot, given the bonus some characters can get from DMG enders and even in MU where one might get the hit easier then the other after the flipout, the PD regen starts off decently slow so I dont think a delay on it is worth too much when the issue imo is getting hit right after breakers back into guess breakers.

Good idea, but I dont think it should be that harsh. 25% maybe?

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I mean, do we have any big offline tournaments happening soon? We could just try in for a month and there should be enough time to change it back quickly if we don’t like it.

Granted I’m not a game dev so I’m not sure this is safe.

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Unfortunately no. The game just isn’t built in a way that allows that. This thread will decide if we make the change live or not.

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Aw, poor Omie, but seems fair[quote=“TheKeits, post:1, topic:16126”]
Characters that inflict a lot of PD (Cinder, Mira, RAAM, etc) would see reductions in the amount they inflict because it affects the game more
[/quote]

Does this means that they have lower damage output since they deal less potential damage? It’s an adjustment to burn mechanic, Raam and Mira instincts the only tweaks, or also their other moves are also tweaked?

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theres a Kombo klash next month lol that should be sizeable

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To be clear, why they would inflict less potential damage, what they DO inflict would stay around a little longer, and if they hit you and you break, 50% of it is STILL there. I certainly wouldn’t call this a nerf to PD characters.

All breakers, yes.

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I just realized something…[quote=“TheKeits, post:1, topic:16126”]
As I’m sure you’ll agree, each season has made getting your combo broken a bit less punishing.
[/quote]

Did you just hint at Season 4?

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Quoting Knuckles here:

“Oh no.”

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Its only an adjustment to the moves that deal out potential damage outside the regular combo system. Cinder Burnout/FlameStreams, Mira Instinct Mist, RAAM Instinct, etc.

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In that case, I guess I’m down. At the very least it’ll give mira a little more stability, so maybe people can stop grossly underrating the character.

Aw, who am I kidding? They’re never gonna stop.

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There is one thing I’m a little worried about here and it’s the varying advantage characters have after a breaker. Some are left slightly minus and some slightly plus. This should be taken under consideration when balancing this.

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I honestly love this idea!!! Please roll this patch Soon!!

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Ok, so that mechanics now will deal less potential damage, but the rest (normals, linkers, doubles…) remains unchanged, so their optimal combos remain the same (@infilament would not have to change nothing of his guide).

But since that mechanics gets adjustments, for example, Raam damage cashing during instinct is lower. How much remains to be seen then.

I overall like the changes

1 Like