Actually, I can kind of see it. The wall crash mechanic means aganos will fairly often find himself in a position where he can get pretty significant damage without having to extend his combo past a single breakable window. Still, I don’t think it really offsets the fact that he has by far the most easily breakable doubles and linkers in the game.
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Well, I was going to reply, but @DEClimax pretty much beat me to it. I do recall the devs saying his ADs had the same frames as Jago when he released, so technically speaking he’s not any easier or harder to break than the monk (unless that’s changed since then - I’ll check just to be sure). Even if I’m wrong, it simply makes it easier to bait breakers using his ADs for a counter-breaker. IMO, he’s a B in this regard.
EDIT: Okay, so here are the stats after fact-checking…
Aganos
HP: 11/2/32, a 5/0 (45f)
MP: 9/2/23, a 3/-1 (34f)
LP: 5/2/17, a 2/-5 (24f)
HK: 11/2/32, a 5/0 (45f)
MK: 9/2/29, a 3/-7 (40f)
LK: 7/2/15, a 2/-3 (24f)
Jago
HP: 8/2/32, a 5/0 (42f)
MP: 6/3/23, a 3/-2 (32f)
LP: 4/2/13, a 2/-3 (19f)
HK: 8/5/31, a 5/0 (36f)
MK: 6/2/20, a 3/-2 (28f)
LK: 4/2/14, 2/-3 (20f)
SIGH 
Oh, I actually agree that Aganos isn’t bottom-tier in breakability. I just wanted Geek to explain why he felt the way he did 
Yeah, Raam’s worse off when it comes to breakability; I will admit I was wrong earlier in the thread 
. Still, I think aganos has it pretty bad; the wallcrash is good, but if he doesn’t have a wall up prospects are pretty iffy.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but from what I see here, Aganos has slower ADs. Is this framedata the actual one?
In any case, it’s not a matter of speed. Not only speed. Aganos ADs are very different from each other, they are basically one move that multi hits, being easier to see and identify quicker a slow slap/punch/stomp/whatever than any other standart AD. @LeoFerreis has said this more times than me and with better wording.[quote=“STORM179, post:60, topic:15564”]
Or what factors keep him from needing to play the combo game in the first place?
[/quote]
I see what you are pointing here. Aganos can get a lot of damage out of the combo system, but that doesn’t make him different from Raam or Tusk. Both have relatively easy to break ADs/linkers, but one has OTG attacks no so easily breakable, and the other some juggling potential.
I put a C- to Aganos not because he is bad and need a fix. I put a C- because I don’t see nobody with worst options than him. Even Raam has OTG options and powerful resets capabilities. There is some dirty stuff with Aganos when a wall is placed, but still there are somewhat obvious breakable points. He is highly rewarded if he is right, but that’s Reward material,not breakabiluty.[quote=“DEClimax, post:64, topic:15564”]
Yeah, Raam’s worse off when it comes to breakability
[/quote]
Raam has fewer options during a combo, but he has OTG combos which are not so easily broken, and some powerful reset capabilities. And we are not considering Instinct, were he is harder to break
Maybe there is somethig I’m missing or maybe it’s just that I play a lot Aganos and I know where are Aganos breaking issues, and maybe I can concede he is not the worst, but in any case, I would never put him out of C in this attribute
Again, this is just my opinion, and it’s ok if someone has a different one
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IMO you can’t put Ra into any of these categories.
Putting 2 swarms on top of each other with a shadow trap in front of it is nearly unbeatable in certain match ups. Add a shadow swarm (that just doesn’t go away) sandsplosion, curse, multiple ways to deal with projectiles, great mobility and potent AA options and you get SSS+ defense.
On the other side, swarms and spikes are projectiles. So having a projectile invincible move, great mobility or a teleport can ■■■■■ with his defense easily.
Ra also starts with nothing but a get-in-for-free card for his opponent in the beginning of the match.
Looking at that I definitely agree with you Ra being C- tier.
TL,DR: His defense tier depends on the match up and playstyle
All that you mentioned is IMO neutral material, where Kan-Ra has really good options, but when he is being harassed (after a Knockdown, cornered, stuff like that), he has very limited options, even fewer without sand, his reversal damages him, and is the only character who can’t instinct cancel his reversal
Yes, it depends how you define ‘defense’. To add some pros to his defense:
he is still floaty after flip outs and his shadow counter is one of the best IMO.
Never mind, my opinion on Ra changes daily
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I’ve been thinking of defense as “what are this character’s options when under pressure (frame traps) or when knocked down”.
5 Likes
Kan-Ra defense:
Pros:
-Good shadow counter(recaps)
-Good backdash
-Floaty after flipout, so some setups whiff on him(sounds a bit buggy to me)
-C.MK can low profile some projectiles
-ONLY WITH SAND:
-True reversal: sandsplosion. Totally invul(although he gets damage), can get him to fullscreen.
-Superjump, which can help him to avoid being cornered
-Shadow spike can act as a “minion”. If Kan-Ra is being preassured near a shadow spike, it will hit his opponent(although it reverts to normal sand if Kan-Ra gets damage)
Cons:
-Floaty jump, although he can use HK to get quickly to the ground
-Situational reversal, damages him, not always avaible
-His reversal can be Option Selected
-Some of his normals whiff when up-close
-Shadow whirl is only throw invulnerable, not hit
Ey @SonicDolphin117, would you like to post your opinion about Kim Wu, Cinder or Glacius here? Should be interesting!
My poor hands…
[spoiler] I’ll do it in a few hours, this is gonna take a while [/spoiler]
2 Likes
Post one each time and not everyone at the same time, so we can read something between characters XD
Here’s a preview for each of my characters. I’ll go in depth later when I have time.
(Edited Kim out cause she is in another post below)
Glacius:
Reward: S-
Neutral: A-
Offense: B-
Defense: A-
Breakability: B-
Instinct: A-
Versatility: Versatile
Comeback Factor: A
Overall: B+
Cinder:
-Reward: A-
-Neutral: B
-Offense: A-
-Defense: A+
-Breakability: B
-Instinct: B
-Versatility: Very versatile
-Comeback Factor: B
-Overall: B+
(Yes I think that all of these characters are around midtier for reasons that may or may not be specified by this evaluation)
I could accept Kim’s or Glacius more or less, but I can’t see Cinder’s. I would rate him higher in some of the ratings, specially defense and reward
You don’t play characters that can OS him. lol
Not maining a character bans me to give my opinion?
MADNESS
“Bans” is a strong word.
3 Likes
Have I ever being very unreasonable when speaking about balance?
Q: Do you think players who rate their mains are more likely to be objective with their ratings or are more likely to rate them more favorably than they probably should, and why?