Character strength assessment thread

Fulgore:
Rewards: B+ Fulgore lacks damage. This is where he struggles. He can get a lot of set ups and a vortex but the damage makes up for it. The opponent has a 50/50 chance to block the mix up but it is fair as Fulgore does little damage. He can gain a lot of meter but for a risk though. His lack of damage really sets him back. He gains meter which helps him a lot for the other catagories. This boosts Fulgore’s rating to B+

Neutral: A+ to S+ With meter, he can do anything. He can do mix ups, zoning, everything. Without meter, he doesn’t really struggle. he plays like Jago without meter. He gains meter though a lot so he can go nuts. The fear of hype beam is just a huge factor.

Offense: B+ to A-Fulgore does have a vortex but only with meter. The thing is it isn’t that hard to beat. Just Shadow Counter once and play some mind games. Without meter, it is meh. Not that fast and easy to react to. He can pip cancel dp shadow counters though. His offense isn’t anywhere as near as good as Sabrewulf or Riptor’s. He does have some mix ups which is good though.

Defense: S+ He has a Dp. This ranks him at atleast an A- He can Shadow Teleport and along with Air Shadow Laser from a Dp, he can instantly make an offensive gamble for the opponent.

Breakability: He has amazing manual one chance combos into vortex and his juggles can be difficult to break. However, they do so little damage and he has no choice but to do easy to break combos to either build spin speed or do damage. This makes him easily breakable. (Also fuck Eyedol. His Heavy Auto looks like a medium.)

Instinct: B+It is nothing special. Just gains some shadow meter. It can be good but compared to other instincts, it is alright. It enhances his other stuff but the instinct itself is average. (Fuck Eyedol’s Instinct. The Shadow DP is so op.)

Versatility: S+He can do everything he wants. Simple. Zone or rushdown, he can do it. He just lacks damage. Very versatile.

Comeback Factor: A-_Hype beam into mix up into a total of 80+ percent damage. I’d say he has a huge comeback factor. He need meter though.

Overall:F for Fulgore Also ■■■■ Eyedol

1 Like

I’ll go with Kim-Wu…

-Reward: B Kim-Wu is all about cashout in my opinion. Not just for damage, which is where she excels. But also, now, for meter and instinct. The recent patch changed her lvl 2 or higher Firecracker ender to gain both a dragon and a bit of meter. Obviously, damage is good. Gaining more meter for more shadow moves and shadow counters, when she previously didn’t have that ability, is also tempting. But because damage is still her go to cashout, it streamlines her in a bad way.

-Neutral: A Kim-Wu is not really easy in any stretch to walk up to. Good ranged heavies, a pretty good medium for poking and anti-airing. She has some versatility in the way she can open a character up to combos, and almost every normal is cancellable to an opener. Pestering an opponent with multiple st. MP, cancelled into dragon sweep is nice. Walk speed and dashing are very good. Firecracker is a pretty good anti-zoning tool for projectile characters.

-Offense: B Her offense can be linear. Unlike any ofher character (i believe), she does not have a means to move an opponent in combo state significantly. Or she moves them a very small bit. This makes her wall splat ender situational; you cannot force your opponent into a corner. Breaking an opponent’s defense is work, and what you usually will spend your dragons on. Her high/low game is probably just below average…

-Defense: C+ With no reversal in her arsenal, her only options really are to guard, backdash, jump or risk a parry attempt. All of her meter options, especially on wakeup, can be countered or seem to have enough of a gap in frames that an opponent can simply block. Her parry, as it is now, can be used as a tool to immediately ‘end the opponent’s turn.’ But that requires a hard read, one dragon prior to using the parry, and to actually hit it. Shadow counters still feel like a true gamble since the Firecracker will still sometimes miss the opponent and leave Kim-Wu down a bar of meter and at the mercy of the opponent.

-Breakability: B- Every character seems to have a auto-double or linker that is easier than others to react to and break. The medium punch auto-double seems to be hers, probably because medium punch itself is a go-to button for her and is easily distinguishable. Her breakability, for me, increases because of the exchange linker, which can get teched mid-combo. It can also get teched if you’re using it to start a combo and in some ways, a return to neutral does less for Kim-Wu than for most other fighers.

-Instinct: B+ to A- Remember - Whiff punisher. Just popping instinct midway into an opponent’s move allows her to react in damaging (Shadow Dragon Kick) or opportunistic (Parry into combo) ways perhaps more so than others. But off the strength of her instinct alone, not so much. Dragon cannon has never felt like a good use of a dragon, outside of baiting a lockout mid combo. I will say that when she is in instinct, her offense probably goes up to an A, her versatility becomes a little less strict, and her neutral maybe goes to A+.

-Versatility: Very Specialized Kim-Wu lacks attributes to moves other characters enjoy. No recapture, flipout or armored moves are available and stagger only becomes available while in instinct and utilizing dragons. Without these four attributes, her ability to adapt to an opponent outside of her gameplan of playing footsies is limited. So limited that it becomes a noticeable and inescapable crutch.

-Comeback factor: A- You do not want to be on the receiving end of most of her combos. One lockout can cost an opponent a significant portion of their life. She is almost never really out of a match because of that. More than anything honestly? An opponent that lets off their gameplan because ‘the match is done’ and walks into hers pays dearly for it.

-Overall: B- Kim-Wu doesn’t have the attributes that other characters have access to or does not have a trait that is either a game changer or a momentum robber (outside of parry, which carries significant risk) without instinct. So without it, she wants you as a opponent to play her game. Hit buttons she can punish you for. Jump into dragon kicks. Do all those sort of things. But she doesn’t have many tools to provoke that. That’s more on the player and the style they establish more than the character’s moveset.

Really interesting.

Don’t have a lot of time right now, but just want to put it out there that in no world does Kim have C+ defense. An omni-counter, meterless invincible reversal (not a good one, but still), and a good backdash. She doesn’t have S tier defense, but she’s got quite a bit better defensive options than much of the cast.

EDIT: that should have read “metered” invincible reversal

1 Like

I guess ill give it a go

Maya:
Reward: B/B-: Maya in my opinion is not about the damage she doesn’t build ender levels quickly and has no damage ender.

Neutral A-: In my opinion Maya neutral is good but relies a lot on her daggers which isn’t bad but since if you miss you loose a lot of your best buttons. She has long range normal such as cr.mk and st.mk and can be canceled into dagger toss.

Offense B+/A-: Maya can get on you easily with her dash and dash jump and Maya has the ability to make you block her daggers which ends up giving her a move that allow hers to do an homing unblock-able, But She lacks any real mix up she only has one slow over head, dagger assault isn’t good, she has little ability that makes you guess
Defense: C+: Maya is a more offense oriented character so her defense isn’t great. She has no reversal except for a somewhat inconsistent dp in shadow leap kick but besides that she a sitting duck. Daggers are not good for Zoning. And her anti are is somewhat slow and is relied on having both daggers.
Breakability:B-: Maya auto doubles and linker are all very slow and distinct. None are very fast and give ample time to react. But in my opinion She has a good one chance break game and is harder to break doing juggles for the most part she try to gives opponents the least amount of chances to break as possible.
Instinct:A+: Maya instinct is great it allows her to never worry about loosing her daggers, give her more opportunity to build pips, more variety and damage in combos. She also gains slightly better pressure from her daggers coming back to her quickly
Versatility:Versatile: Maya can deal with most to all match ups decently, Their is not any real match up where a Maya player should feel they had no option. She can deal with offense characters with her buttons and Zoners with her Exceptional Mobility, She has a good mixture of everything.
Comeback Factor: A: I believe Maya comeback factor is great. Maya can comeback from a deficit because of how good her rush down is she is able to make you scared and you cant run because she will be right on you. He instict is good for allowing comeback and when she has all 4 pips to give her a free opening,

Overall:B+: Maya is good but doesnot have anything that makes her scary. She suppose to be offensive but does not have that greatest of mix ups. Her neutral is good but their are a couple of characters that are better. But Maya abilities and buttons are good enough to prevent her being bad. Maya is only good because of the play using her not really of her tools are exceptional. Most characters that are usually placed above her and some even below her has something dirty that puts fear in their opponent and why i say she is in the b+ range is she has some good stuff but she doesnt have any gimmicks,dirt, trick what every you want to call it.

Definitely not feeling this. Kim has a reversal. Shadow dragon kick is fully invulnerable on startup and can be made safe with dragons. She can also convert her counter into a full combo, and the application of her counter defensively isn’t nearly as narrow as hisako’s, as it counters highs/lows/projectiles. Her defensive options are limited by resources, but applying them well nets her big damage.

Meterless invincible reversal?

1 Like

Meterless invincible reversal? What move are you referring to?

That aside, it’s based on my opinion and experience. Counter still needs a read, but yes, it can be omni. The backdash i took into account. But i expected people would disagree. It’s why i asked this community what constitutes good defense awhile back.

I’d say ‘safer’ before safe, but i feel i know what you’re going for.

But like with @STORM179, and yourself, i’m just putting out my opinion. The two of you probably know the game better; i just know what i see with the only character i play in this game.

Apologies, that should have read “metered” invincible reversal.

But yes, shadow dragon kick is safe (or even plus) on block with the use of a dragon. And her counter is an omni-counter, not “can be” an omni-counter. It has its limitations to be sure, but that is a pretty significant option to have on defense.

3 Likes

I think the last couple may be moving into the realm of lowballing the characters (I’m sure not consciously).

I think Maya is better on offense than indicated here and Kim Wu is definitely better on defense. Maya has mantis, which is a near instant overhead from the air, as well as both normal and dagger juggles that are very hard to break. Kim Wu has a counter and can reflect projectiles. Her counter is tight timing, but it’s not more of a “hard read” than a shadow counter, for example.

EDIT: also it’s wrong to say Kim’s dragon counter requires a dragon before hand. You can always counter, but if you have a dragon you can Dragon cancel a counter into combo. That’s really good.

1 Like

I will post more characters tomorrow or along the next week but I would like to put some of the best/worst characters in some attributes:
-Defense: Jago (S+/S), Orchid (S/S+), Kan-Ra (C-/C)
-Breakability: TJ(S+)
-Instinct: Eyedol (S+) TJ, Sadira, Jago (all S), Raam (S-)

With the thing I was more confused of what was was the realm for the letters. I based my things on what the instructions and what other people said above someone gave wulf a- in offense and my head I don’t think Maya’s offense is as good as them. I thought about juggles but I thought does that count because everyones juggles are hard to break plus daggers are unbreakable so that doesn’t count. I wouldn’t count mantis as a overhead because 1 it’s a grab, second it can’t hit crouching opponents, and it’s definitely not instant or super great trickery because you can’t do it that low to the ground any more or jump back mantis. Now maybe it seems like I underated Maya but it wasn’t my intentions I think she is good but I based my letters of opinion and comparison to characters rated above.

Although Maya’s autodobles are not among the most hard to break, she has good juggling potential, far daggers are unbreakable, and she can use her dagger ender to make her combos hard to break while daggers are active.
I would put C to characters without real ways to make their combos harder to break aside from universal ones (Counter breakers), with poor reset potential, not much juggling potential, and “easy” to identify auto doubles. Example : Aganos
B would be characters with better options in that fields. Has limited juggling, can reset the combo, and maybe a special mechanic. Example: Shago (not sure of this one)
A are very hard to break and have great reset tools or some odd anti break mechanics. I would put Cinder here.
S are best in class. Probably has either a flipout or a recapture(or both!). Tj and Instinct Sabrewulf would be here

1 Like

I respect your opinion but the auto said difficulty to break and reset potential. For One daggers couldn’t count in this equation because they are UNBREAKABLE which means they cant be count them because you cant break them and i cant counter break them. Second for the most part Maya’s do not use dagger assault, Daggers assault builds a lot of kv which means little damage plus you cant juggle because the daggers hitting them when they go into the air prevents that, and lastly dagger assault is an outside factor that would have to be weighed in and if they should be counted this is all dependent on how many pips you have and if you open them up with dagger assault on them. Resets maybe I am just bad but what can Maya get for letting you out of a combo Maya’s mix ups are limited so at most you will get grabbed or hit again compared to, Wulf dash through and high low mix ups, omens grab one chance break, hisako command grab hard knockdown or air orizo, and other examples other character have more things they can do. So while i do respect your opinion I can not agree with you.

I should probably change that to say something else, then, because that’s not what I meant at all. Though, since it’s the only section referring to breaking combos, I’m not sure why you’d think “long portions of combos are unbreakable” wouldn’t be a plus there.

2 Likes

Maybe im reading into it too much and shouldn’t be taking the instructions word for word. But if unbreakable are a factor then i Could probable see Maya in the A range.

Yeah, I would tend to come down on the side that says having long strings of unbreakable offense is an unambiguous good, and absolutely should be part of your equation for the “breakability” section.

Don’t take the description quite so literally - we are talking about general character strengths, and being flat-out unbreakable is absolutely a positive factor in Killer Instinct. To combo without he risk of being broken is basically the holy grail of KI offense.

EDIT: got ninja’d

1 Like

I stand by my thoughts. People will disagree, but were not trolling one another…Thats all i need.

Aw man! :weary:

Soon. It WILL happen soon. The end is nigh! Mwahaha!!! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Aganos a C, @Dayv0? I wholeheartedly disagree.

Explain why you disagree. What options does Aganos have to make himself more difficult to break? Or what factors keep him from needing to play the combo game in the first place?