But this is what I’m talking about when I say that this is a highly subjective thing. You, and others, may find fulgore a difficult character to play, but I don’t at all. He’s one of the first characters I played in the game and I find his hit-and-run gameplan to be something that comes very naturally to me, with little difficulty. My other point also still stands: we’re talking about the strengths of the character itself, which assumes a competent player.
I understand, and I agree, warth is not always avaible when you need it. But when you have it, its another game changer.
Warth is somehow similar to Tusk’s reflect: you dont always “use it”, it happens to be “taken advantage” when it happens to be applicable.
Its hard to measure, because, for example, characters with special resources can have multiple ratings depending of their disposal. Aganos has zero zoning chunkless, good zoning when chunked. Should we consider to evaluate an average, or his peak? This could be harder with Aria, which has multiple combinations (all bodies, only one, several combinations of 2…).
At the end, Hisako with warth seems better at neutral to me, and without warth is worse than what you said. I suppouse you put the “average” rating, which is OK
Well sure. But is it more subjective than “defense?” Each of the above measures is actually a collection of judgements on a whole combination of things like reversals, normals, ability to deal with crossups, throw range…
Also, “competent” is subjective and remember it’s other tournament players who are claiming Fulgore is god tier but not good return on investment for skill development.
Anyway, we don’t have to agree. I’d still like to see it.
For myself, I evaluated Hisako based on the composite picture of the skill being discussed. If a character has godlike X, but only when they have Y, and they cannot be expected to generally have Y, then to me that means that they are only situationally godlike at X, and probably shouldn’t get an S rating on that point since there is a reasonable expectation that they’ll spend large chunks of the match not having godlike X.
For additional reference, I generally consider S tier to mean that a character is able to unilaterally dominate in this field, with little recourse for the opponent but to simply take it. To whit, I rated Hisako an S for comeback potential and breakability, because “don’t get hit” is crappy advice and once you get hit and she’s in instinct, all you can do is hold on for dear life and hope you guess right on the reset attempt. You can guess right on the reset attempt, and it’ll probably win you the game, but the ball is almost entirely in Hisako’s corner, and what you do to stop/avoid it is a pure guess. It’s incredibly strong when a character maintains all the initiative on something, and that dominance makes me say “S tier”.
If you’re only situationally dominant at a thing or can’t necessarily dictate it, then to me that says A tier (in whatever gradation). It’s still really, really, strong, but an opponent has options against it, and doesn’t just have to hold whatever it is you’re doing. That to me is the difference between A and S tier.
The worst part of this thread is that nobody has followed the instructions to put the analysis paragraphs in italics.
F- would not read again
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I wasn’t going to make a fuss about it but this whole time I’ve been internally burning with barely-controllable rage over that, yes.
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But guys what if the player playing had a bad breakfast? You can’t just ignore that when discussing characters!
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Well, since it’s 7am here in Tokyo and I’ve got nothing better to do, guess I’ll go fix that then… 
Lol. Considering I wrote all that on my phone, I was just proud of myself for not having any typos 
Fixed.
The other benefit of this thread is that it will maybe help certain people who don’t “believe” in tier lists to understand how and why you are able to rate a character’s tools by themselves, without a player attached to them. Characters can be objectively rated and assessed, and tier lists created based on whatever metric we decide, and saying “yes but player X didn’t do that when I beat him last night” doesn’t change the conversation at all.
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Sure, when i get to a computer. Though i haven’t played much with the most recent buffs with all the bugs and whatnot.
I’ll try my hand, sure. I’m not the best, but I’ve done a bit of thinking about the fluffer pup.
#Sabrewulf-
-Reward: A. Sabrewulf may not hit like a runaway ice cream van anymore, but he still hits relatively hard. Lockouts can lead to an easy 50%+ thanks to rabid doubles and Shadow Leap Slash. AND, if he doesn’t go for raw damage, he gets some wicked setup potential. Good juggles, hard knock down mix ups, a flip out, and IMO one of the coolest Ultras in the game.
-Neutral: A+/S-. Holy ■■■■ Wulf’s buttons. Overpower is either a heavy that acts like a light, or an unblockable half screen über meaty. His sweep is on par with Glacius as far as range. Crouching medium is good for hit confirms, and crouching HK + Eclipse + claw uppercut give him great anti-air. Good boy!
-Offense: A-. Yes, Wulf has some scary mix ups and equally scary pressure, BUT a lot of it is either horridly unsafe or easy to Shadow Counter. Still, he can find unexpected ways to open you up, even if he is a bit honest.
-Defense: B. Sabrewulf struggles without a meterless reversal if the opponent gets the upper hand. However his anti air is still phenomenal, and with a decent throw range that hits pretty hard he can turn a bad situation into a delicious one if he gets a chance. He’s not boned, per se, but he’s still going to need to be patient.
-Breakability: B+. Wulf has been around a while, and his highest damage tools are hyber easy to break. Now that his Slash/Hammy linkers have been normalized he’s not nearly as ambiguous, but his light/medium punch doubles combined with his light/medium ragged edge linker can make a confusing mess if used right.
-Instinct: S-. I miss the damage boost, and the feral cancels aren’t nearly as frightening as in S2. HOWEVER, being harder to block, AND doing more unblockable damage, AND being harder to break, and being more or less safe on everything, and looking swol while doing it… That’s still pretty damn good
-Versatility: Half & Half. See, he’s specialized in staying up close and personal, but he had a variety of methods to help him get in. Good footsies, good speed, Diving Slash, and run certainly help get him in, but he still tends to have to work against zoners/fireballs.
-Comeback factor: B+/A-. Wulf’s Instinct isn’t a guaranteed lifebar anymore, but his damage still helps. He just has to play smart. Like, really smart. Wulf is a solid character, but yolo play can put him in the doghouse and give his opponent too much room to wiggle. At the same time, playing a crazy Wulf can make angels cry in sheer terror from the onslaught they witness. Learning to balance smart with insane can help sinch a match you may have lost.
-Overall: A/A+. While his weaknesses are certainly pitiable, a Sabrewulf player that’s on a roll is absolutely terrifying. Decent damage, good mix ups, awesome footsies and a killer instinct (pun intended. Sorry) make him really solid in the right hands. Great audio and visual design certainly help. Players like MyGod and WarMachine show that despite all the neighsaying the dog can still have his day. I really wish I could do him justice.
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If everyone will be patient with me, here is my Glacius rating. All of my caveats about being mid tier apply, and certainly there are better Glacius players than me etc. etc. But it seemed like fun. Also it’s hard as hell to format the text in a phone so I apologize to @Infilament for my lack of italics😜
Reward: A/A+
Glacius has good damage without meter and great damage with it. Now that he has a true invincible reversal it’s easier to hold onto that meter in order to pile on the damage after a lockout. He can also set you up for some shatter and hail mix ups. His only reward drawback is that his post combo setups are limited by his lack of a high low mixup so he has a pretty finite number of options. His range combos, while a terrific tool are also void of both his good damage and any ability to really setup after. This is somewhat mitigated by his ability to dash in to make a range combo a normal combo, but in the realm of KI characters you fear Glacius’s damage but not really his post combo setups.
-Neutral: A-
Glacius has very good space control and excels in neutral in his preferred spacing, which is medium range. Anywhere he could hit you with a medium or heavy shatter but still also tag you with an ice lance or cold shoulder you are in real trouble. But While Glacius has good forward mobility he has terrible walkspeed and a backdash that was inserted as a joke. His new truly invincible reversal helps him up close in neutral but he’s really in trouble if you can get in on him.
-Offense: A
Glacius can be played rushdown because he has potent offensive weapons. He’s hurt by the lack of 50/50s or true mixups, but if he catches you flat footed he can put some nasty hail/shatter setups in place that, even if unsuccessful are tough or impossible to punish. But he suffers a bit from reactable startup on his hail and shatter. Cold shoulder is not reactible but can be punished, so Glacius has meaningful trade offs on offense.
-Defense: B
As for other things Glacius’s defense is very dependent on spacing. At medium range he can play the zoning game very well and make himself safe with hail. Up close he isn’t without options but often he’s making a high stakes guess to get rid of you. He does have an invincible reversal now, and it does help improve his defensive options. But he still doesn’t want you in his grill. So Glacius doesn’t have garbage D but he’s definitely on the weaker side of the KI cast - despite having an invincible meterless reversal.
-Breakability: C
Like most S1 characters Glacius has easy to read ADs. His long range ADs have a pretty obvious tells too and even his manuals are easy to identify, if not to react to. His linkers are both easy to read as well. If you can’t break Glacius it’s you not him.
-Instinct: A-
When you can deliver the punchy damage that Glacius can, one hit of armor goes a long way. although the effectiveness is reduced by grounded heavies in S3, reliance on heavies means Glacius can beat you with his mediocre normals or his excellent grab that has good range and sends you out to a manageable distance. The verdict on his teleport puddle is that it’s not high utility at high level, but mixed in with shatter and hail and a pip of armor it at least gives him a bit of a mixup.
-Versatibility: (shouldn’t this be “versatility?”) B
Glacius can be played rushdown or medium range zoner, but in reality you almost have to combine these to be truly effective.
-Comeback factor: A
There’s no magic here. Glacius can bop you for 65% if he gets a lockout and has two meters. He’s not a momentum based character and his instinct doesn’t facilitate huge comebacks, but his power alone means he is a real comeback threat. This is only hampered by his relatively poor breakability.
-Overall: A-
Glacius is strong. He has always had powerful strengths but his terrible weaknesses have been mitigated with the addition of his puddle in S2 and now his meterless invincible reversal in S3. He’s got some bad matchups, but he’s top five in some categories and not scraping the bottom in any except breakability. Overall he’s probably not a top five character but he has some tricks up his sleeve and a solid ability to hurt opponents as well as frustrate their gameplan.
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Looks Like I ruined it for everyone, All Better
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I’ll probably do RAAM when I hit my computer either tonight or tomorrow evening, and then get brutally shot down on my assessment.
Meh, it’s still subjective. I’m going to sit this 1 out and wait for it to eventually implode on itself simply because someone disagrees with someone else.
Silly attitude.
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Oh yeah! I disagree!!!
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