Continuing the discussion from How would you rebalance S1 & S2 characters before season 3?:
I’m not sure where you’re getting the KV thing from. You should probably back that up with specifics.
Most of TJ’s neutral game has remained largely unchanged; and TJ still has by far the best combo trait, even post-barrage nerf. I don’t think this request has legs.
TJ Combo moveset definitely needs to be 're-evaluated. He is not fun to play with anymore.
Only issue I really ahd with T.J was alot of his autos lacked variation so it was really hard to break him. Other than that he seemed ok.
I prefer to think of this situation as you actually have to think now to win with him. I don’t know how far pre-nerf your wanting to go back to but, if you mean beginning of season 2, good luck with that. Tremor was too ridiculous, unpunishable on block, hits in front and behind him, huge attack box out in front and above him, insane pressure tool that recaps, way too good and abusable. You didn’t even have to think, you could just throw it out without any kind of worry.
Tremor aside, he has several ways of closing gaps on an opponent that makes him a nightmare, invincible rolls, armored meterless punch, Long range Tremor, he’s got the ground and sky approaches completely covered. Even as much as air Cinder can get with his trialblazer, TJ can still reach him at the highest Cinder can go, unless he’s got a second afterburner from being in fired up mode.
I don’t really think TJ was overly nerfed. Maybe his auto doubles could use reworking to make a little more sense, but even knowing how to identify and break his barrage, some of those punches are still hard to break because some look too identical to one another.
I just think he could have kept his 6 AD animations.
Before the AB nerf, I saw TJ as a character who broke the rules. 3 different 1-hit autos into a linker? Come on. TJ players I would find online did this and ONLY this. The occasional TJ players who didn’t constantly rely on AB were actually doing some impressive stuff like the Instinct juggles, and smart grab setups, and manuals that I didn’t know existed. He was a very strong character. And now with this AB nerf, I see more TJ players playing like they should’ve been and doing smart stuff while still making him look like a strong character. I was glad to see that he was no longer a 3-autos into linker character and he played by the rules of the system while still keeping his stuff intact.
I do agree that he needs his 6 ADs though. It only makes more sense to me that people learn what the ADs look like now that he can’t just go straight into the linker which is what I’m sure everyone worried about. That’s just me.
I wouldn’t mind if they dug into his animations and whatnot and gave him access to his kick auto doubles. Whether they do that or not, I still think TJ’s combo game is the best in KI.
I started playing TJ post-nerf and played him for nearly 2-3 months from that point forward and rarely did poorly with him. IMO, he works just fine. Aesthetically speaking, he may be boring, I admit - after all, he’s not a skeleton, a cyborg, a fire-breathing dinosaur, etc.; he’s just your average, regular joe-schmoe, but that’s what actually makes him stand out when you really think abou it - he’s the underdog. He’s our Rocky Balboa.
If they bring S2 launch TJ back, I’m taking my guide page for him down and replacing it with “just do Tremor”.
Also, ask Juicebox (a fighting game veteran getting back into KI) about his thoughts on how scary TJ’s neutral is.
No one is saying to bring back his tremor that touched you no matter where on the stage. His auto-doubles got changed, they cut some of his animations and made him super restrictive, you can hardly pull a combo over 20 hits while Aganos, Jago, Spinal and everyone else can string longer combos than the guy called TJ “Combo” in the game…
Can you clarify how TJ can no longer do combos? I don’t recall anything in the patch updates about blowing out his KV meter.
I seem to recall that the AB was changed, but he still has autodoubles and manuals just like everyone else.
he can do combos, short ones, odd for someone with that name who can’t string a longer combo than the rest of the cast.
Again, you keep saying this, but I don’t see any evidence that TJ’s combos are shorter than the rest of the cast…
Just opened up the game and did a 16 hit, meterless 45% combo with TJ. I used his knee ender, which isn’t even his damage ender. I also did a 24 hit, one meter, 54% damage combo using shadow knee and his powerline ender. I’m going to go ahead and call BS on this thread.
Hard for me to believe
I’m checking for videos of anything after his nerf update, and there are none. Nothing that shows the difference but I’ve tried myself in the dojo and I don’t know what @BigBadAndy is talking about.
Sorry, I shouldn’t have been antagonistic. But here is a link to a OneDrive video I just made showing a 20 hit, meterless, 44% damage combo with TJ. I’m no expert - I’m sure lots of people could do better. I’m not sure if too many characters can really pull 50% damage 20+ hit meterless combos, so I’m trying to figure out why you are saying TJ can only do short combos.
If there is a better way to get video in here without having to do a dozen file exchanges and uploads I’d be happy to do it…
All you did is prove my point
Even though it was meter-less, your combo wouldn’t have gone far with a real opponent because everything you did was glaringly easily breakable. The only thing you are counting on by not going overboard with your KV meter is if you combo counter your opponent and carry on, you can easily go 24 hits and over. As it stands TJ is average ~16 and 20-23 if you’re lucky, everyone else in the game can do ~25 hits
I’ve played against a lot of TJs during the past month, and they were all dangerous.
Manuals, juggles, recaptures, frame trapps, Instinct comeback… You may eventually give him back his 6 diffrents AD (at least outside of Auto-Barrage) but otherwise, I don’t see why he should be buffed.
PRO DEATH Uv finished first in ranked with TJ Combo… Just sayin’
Beg to differ with you on that one. I’ve played a lot of Cinder and Thunder, and I can tell you TJ is not the only one who was trouble getting combos after a certain number. Thunder’s ADs and linkers are all very easily telegraphed by long animations which are very easily visually unique and breakable. Even with meter, he has a hard time building a high combo count. And using his throw linker puts you at an even higher risk for break if you’re not careful.
Cinder’s ADs are decently fast, but his linkers leave something to be desired, and all his shadow linkers are very breakable.
But honestly, the average combo for this game is within the 10-20 range anyway, that’s how the combo system has been designed. Characters with high combo potential often carry with them unique aspects of their gameplay that make it possible to do so on a regular basis, but more often than not, their damage output suffers for it.
If you think about it, most combos above 20 often are a little rare because they involve things such as lockouts, some method by which the KV meter resets, Instinct, shadow meter usage, etc. Being able to get high combo numbers without expanding resources and expecting the same damage output as when you do use one of the above mechanics is a bit unbalanced. Also, given that higher number combos often involve lengthy chains of ADs, shadow moves, and linkers, each extension of the combo makes it that much more prone to breaking, as you’re giving the opponent another chance each time to break, another chance to recognize your pattern, your strategy, all of that.
I like to think the most average combo for any character in the game consists of about 10-20 hits, somewhere between those two, is a level three ender, and deals a moderate damage output around at 20+%, maybe even 30% in rare instances, like Thunder.
So, I can appreciate your sentiment, but I think you might overestimate the average combo potential of the characters in the game, or at least might have a skewed perception of what is an average combo length.