Bring back TJ Combo in his pre-nerf Glory

#21

Translation: I have to think to use him now so he needs to be buffed.

His neutral is just as good as ever, his combo trait is balanced, and you can actually punish what should be a punishable move. What’s wrong with him?

#22

The excuse to defend him now is that he is a thinking man’s character? PLEASE stop now. When you are doing something and he throws a weird mid jab out of nowhere forcing you to drop the combo? Timings are all off, we all have to relearn new timings for him? This is ridiculous, when you pick a character and have to say to yourself, oh yea I can’t do this or that and watch this button and the timing for this regular combo because we have to make him all that much harder so more people drop combos or just start them and end them quickly out of fear of screwing up? TJ was fine before that update, all that IG needed to do was fix the bug causing auto-barrage to be unbreakable because it became unbreakable a few updates in on around the time Omen was released.

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#23

[quote=“Kixmix, post:22, topic:1403, full:true”]
Timings are all off, we all have to relearn new timings for him?[/quote]

Play anime fighters. This happens all the time.

#24

Like I said before I just think he needs his 6 AD animations. He is still strong but ita really hard to play him at a high level if you at just average or slightly above, people ask for cinder, aganos, tj buffs but those characters don’t really need them, the game should be balanced on the highest possible level and not balanced for the average player. If you are gonna balance it for average players you need to make some characters much much stronger and then you would have to ban then from tournaments because that what pros could do with it wouldn’t even be fair to others that play other characters.

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#25

very true, everyone else is balanced. TJ isn’t

#26

He is, just not for the average player, rebelo does just fine with him.

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#27

I’m not an average player…

#28

TJ’s combo length + hit counter (if this sort of thing really matters to you) is pretty much in line with most of the characters. There are a few people who have randomly been assigned more hits on their shadows/can do wacky stuff in neutral to get massive hit counts (Cinder and Kan-Ra), but just being able to do a 30 hit combo doesn’t mean it does more damage or is more useful than a 20 hit one. In KI, the number of hits in a combo is largely cosmetic.

The combo BigBadAndy posted is no more or less breakable than a “standard” Jago 20 hit combo. It uses auto-doubles, linkers, and shadow linkers. Every character can do this and get about 20-25 hits no problem, and most characters in the game (TJ included) don’t do more than 8-15 hits in their average combo.

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#29

TJ is fine. He’s still a strong character.

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#30

Im not saying you are. Im just saying that the ones i know that are really good at the game do just fine with TJ. Rebelo did a first to 10 against paul B after the nerf and won like 10-6, paul B was still saying that TJ was too strong.

#31

TJ Combo is fine. In fact, I still say that there is still a bit too much hitstun on some of his attacks, but all in all he’s a great character.

Wishing TJ Combo to go back to the way he was means that you wish he was back to being a YOLO character that took no skill to use and could keep people perpetually locked out. He wasn’t working as intended and much of the player base did agree that something had to be done.

I play top TJ players all the time and he is something to behold. Is he easy to pick up? No, at least not any more, but people now have to think before reacting.

Generally the worse TJ players that I come against tend to keep spamming jumping attacks over and over again. Now that you can safely block and attack (they way it should be), they are now getting punished for reckless behavior.

I agree with everyone else in that he could use better animations in his Auto Barrage, because it is still very difficult to determine the strength of the input, but that is all that I would change.

At the end of the day, we all would like our mains to have more tools, be stronger, ect ect… but balance is a very tricky thing. TJ, while not as top tier as he was, is not garbage tier.

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#32

What’s wrong with him u ask? His moveset period. He is a boxer, not a juggling specialist.

#33

I would support TJ being able to Shadow out of his Auto Barrage, but nothing beyond that.

#34

Bruh… You are so wrong here. Autobarrage never became truly unbreakable in the code of the game. It was just a broken mechanic. Mash buttons and you have a combo that is nigh-unreadable. Oh, and you could do this without fear of any punishment because you could end it at anytime.

Then you have Tremor, a low-hitting overhead that crossed up and gave a HKD. Then a full-screen armored move that can be canceled into a command throw, a throw-invincible move that is practically safe, or a fully invincible roll.

Oh right. Now he doesn’t sound so balanced does he?

#35

A lot of game balance is expectation. If TJ was never launched in the state he was, I think people would be mostly fine with the character as he is now (if this was the only version they saw of him). But at the same time, arriving at this version of TJ was maybe unlikely if they had gone about it any other way. It’s a weird chicken-and-egg problem that can only be solved with tons of internal testing, good designers with encyclopedic knowledge of fighting games and, IMO, a healthy dose of luck.

TJ Tremor and Maya DP at S2 launch are some of the silliest moves I’ve seen get into a mainstream fighting game (in context of what the rest of the cast can do). But fortunately, they also learned some good lessons from it and we haven’t seem them repeat those mistakes.

(And an honorary mention goes to TJ’s flying knee, a move that was technically -8 but by the time you saw you had blocked it, TJ was +5. It’s the only “hugely minus” move in any game I’ve ever played that had to be punished on prediction)

#36

Don’t know where you’re getting this idea from…the only characters in the game who routinely hit those kinds of numbers are Kan-Ra (due to multi-hit scarabs and 10-hit shadow linker) and Cinder (due to juggle shenanigans and high hitting shadows). TJ’s “average” 16-hit combos are in line with the rest of the cast. No one is averaging 20+ hits per combo - heck, I’d argue that no one is averaging 16-hits.

And you keep saying that because his name is “Combo” he should have longer/more hitting combos, but where is the precedent for this? In KI and KI2 he combo’d pretty much in line with the rest of the cast, same as he does in this one. Heck, in this one he’s actually quite a bit flashier than much of the cast, what with his multiple recap combos and instinct juggles.

TJ is fine. The original AB was BS.

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#37

I have never cared much for TJ pre nerf or post nerf. He was an easy win for me regardless until after his nerf but here is why. Pre nerf, you could yolo TJ and have the most ridiculous combo’s ever with no effort whatsoever because his auto barrage gave you FREE manuals of any strength. The reason those TJ’s were free wins is because they relied solely on how good his auto barrage was to win they never learned his neutral game or footsies or anything, just spam tremor and power line hoping for an opener.

New TJ’s the ones who were not braindead players, are hard to deal with, their pressure is top notch, they have crazy juggle setups so sometimes jumping in isn’t easy since they don’t just tremor which can be stuffed with nearly any button on any character. Their combo’s are nasty, they have evolved beyond the auto barrage and have created some of the dirtiest juggles. People complain about TJ’s animations being the problem in combo, off his vortex linker alone he has, 14 different animations that you have to know to try and break whatever manual he throws at you if you’re not guessing. If you’re not confident you wait for the tremor recap so you can read the strength but that is so much counter breaker bait that most people don’t try to break it. TJ is still a monster, he always has been but people were never willing to put the time into him. On his nerf people complained, and they STILL complain. Pro Death just won a tournament with TJ. He has been consistently top 32 for the past several months using only TJ.

Every time there is a complaint about TJ, it’s auto barrage, and animations, that’s it. Just because his barrage was changed and his auto doubles changed doesn’t mean he is a bad character. The only time and I mean ONLY time I see pro death use auto doubles is on lockout. TJ is almost a better juggler than Cinder and Sadira… After watching Pro Death for a while you’ll know what I mean.

#39

We said the same about Fulgore…IG did not listen :frowning:

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#40

i love original tj combo. i hate new tj combo :frowning: