Annihilation move is OP. take it out

#41

I think you should use TJ’s instinct manually almost every time. There are some rare cases where it makes sense to save for last breath, but they are the minority, not the majority.

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#42

In my entire playtime, I’ve only ever seen 2 TJs actively use his instinct for the frame advantage, and in both cases, he was outright 1 of the scariest characters I’ve ever faced…

#43

Trying to convince people to not save instinct for last breath t is like trying to convince the world to stop eating fast food. We know it’s not the best thing to do, but the alternative doesn’t have the instant satisfaction we love.

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#44

I’m finding that ppl are using the annihilation immediately out of Instinct freeze… and its hard to escape.
I wish they would have just left it as the ultimate and been done with it…no one is using the shackles and as you and I discussed the other day…it has taken away the Thunder of the Ultimate.

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#45

Annihilation is scary and all, but Shadow Jago can do MUCH MORE TERRIFYING things with instinct.

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#46

Heres the solution to dark annihiliation, learn how to dodge, jesus christmas, i’ve had my dark annihilation ANNIHILIATED by Shagos back+HK, boo hoo it does too much damage, so does Devastation Beam and if landed, so can demonic despair, and those arent getting nerfed, and do you know why? because they dont need to be, neither does dark annihilation

#47

If the move took 35% it would be perfect.

#48

I didn’t even get a chance to post my own video here… Things travel fast I guess.

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#49

On the bright side, it means that your work got noticed and is being shared. I could tag you in the post for more proper accreditation if you’d like. :smiley:

#50

See the problem with that is that it requires both you and your opponent to have two bars, then you have to hope they don’t guess break the juggle, if they do that combo only would have done a little over 30%. I’d rather take a guaranteed 48% over a highly unlikely 91%.

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#51

It would also render the move pointless, in which it would never be used by anyone again. Lowering the damage that much would tilt the balance of the move to a point where no one would ever risk it because the payoff isn’t good enough. It’s a difficult high wire act in this situation, similar to Fulgore’s hype beam went for the longest period. Given how precious meter is to build for Fulgore, you have to justify the expenditure of that meter on the move than some other type of opportunity, otherwise, it goes unused, and what’s the point of a move in a character’s repertoire that goes unused?

35% isn’t enough to really ask for someone to use it over having it to do the tether and meter draining powers, but some people may feel the current output is too generous. It’s a tough act to balance.

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#52

Nope, absolutely no need to nerf. If a Shago is saving Instinct, you know they want the Annihilation, and the move is so horrible. Sure it does 48% guaranteed with full bar, but that’s on hit/punish. I don’t think anyone realizes how easy it is to bop anybody out of it, I started Wulf’s run from fullscreen just before an opponent activated and tried to use Annihilation, I just used Leaping Slash to beat it out and continued into my combo, you can just as easily mash a quick jab button to knock him out of it.
Try it in training mode, see how easy it is, come back and ask the mods to close this thread.

#53

No question that seeing the same animation for annihilation every other match takes away the impact of Shago’s ultimate. I’m actually someone who didn’t really like his ultimate that much because it looked like a SFIV ultra combo - and now they have made annihilation pretty much exactly that. So, I wouldn’t be opposed to him losing it for game design reasons.

But the question is, is it OP? I appreciate that people are using it as a punish right out of activation. But you have to give them something to punish first. I sometimes struggle to keep track of all the different meters running in the game, so I’m sympathetic, but I think you just need to know that Shago has meter and play accordingly. It’s not different than something like, say Aganos with a couple of walls behind you. You know he’s looking to smash you through them so you play differently.

I think part of the issue is that it’s extra aggravating to get hit with a big damage move that plays a 5 second movie in KI because we are so used to 2 way interactions. For Shago’s annihilation you are pretty much stuck watching. I have been playing as Shago, so obviously I’m skewing in his favor right now. But I’ve been in a bunch of Shago mirror matches against people way better than me and annihilation just isn’t the move that scares me in his repertoire.

#54

Wow… That’s pretty scary. How strict is the timing for this @SullenMosquito? Those swirls are technically breakable right? It’s just that there’s no difference between the strengths so it’s a guess.

#55

What gets me, is that unlike other powerful moves, it doles out flat damage. There’s no chance for recovery like with the hype beam or devesation moves. If it hits, that’s it. And I find it’s not always easy to “poke” your way out of it, since most players are smart enough to do it when you’re vulnerable, like from hit-stun or something (I know my Aganos gets hit by it a lot, for obvious reasons).

#56

I find it so funny that the same that are all for two way interaction and say guess breaking is fine - than say this move is fine.

I dont know what to think about the move. All i know is that if Shago has full intsinct - your in a spot where you can not play yolo (i actually like that about the move) or else you eat 48% unbreakable legit and intended damage. Instinct bar is gone but you will get it twice a round and with full instinct you eliminate options for the opponent in his head.

All other unbreakable stuff just work within the current projectile are unbreakables system and may even be taken out or be made breakable. or left like it is now. But doesnt Shago have projectiles too? Maybe there will be additional unbreakable stuff with him that take about 20-30% with meter usage and than you would have a unbreakable character :wink:

Shagos Instinct or in general DP loop seems to be buggy cause the KV does not rise but its still breakable.

I dont say it should go - just that there is a risk implementig a move with 48% unbreakable damage and a startup that fast on a character with projectiles with the projectiles are unbreakable system behind it.

And i dont understand how the players that always say breaking is KI and guess breaking is no issue but than are pro annihilation even with the cost of a instinct bar. What if all characters get this sort of move? Would you still be fine with it?

Again- i dont care really but mark my words that you will see this move a lot even in tournaments. Unbreakable damage has a lot of magic for a lot of players.

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#57

I’m not for taking it out because of OP reasons…I’m for leaving the Ultimate as the Ultimate and that’s it. No need to do it 3 times a match…that’s over kill.

#58

You can’t do it three times a match, since you need a supreme victory for the ultimate you can only earn the grab once.

#59

That’s it… I’m making a “things you can do to not be hit by Annihilation” video. :expressionless:

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#60

According to Bastfree, it actually does more damage than it says. But it’s still fast enough where you can react to it.

It also gives off a lot of Instinct as well. Just something to consider.