Annihilation move is OP. take it out

Shadow Jago’s annihilation move with full instinct is so OP. 48% damage and in an average macth he can do this 2 times!?! are you (IG) serious?
This move has to be taken out. nobody takes advantage of the ‘dark shackles’. Why would they? youcan not get hit so it’s not that easy to get a moveset out of it that give you more than 48%damage.
so it’s not being used instead everybody uses the annihilation move. easy damage!
You guys really need to take this out or find a solution for this.
2 times in 1 match is 96% easy damage. don’t you think it’s a tiny bit OP?


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I do think it’s being used more frequently than the dark shackles, that’s for sure. Not only that, but as an Aganos player, more often than not, I’m getting hit by it… :confused:

I lost a few matches because of this move. It is kind of scrubby, but I bet it’s not an issue at tournaments.

Can’t you just hold up or something in response to the freeze?


I don’t think the grab itself is a problem, the problem lies in the fact that it’s just a much better option than actually using his instinct.

Not if you’re in mid-move, like Aganos so often is - it freakin’ beats out shadow ruin! :worried:

Most people use it to punish moves, and it’s not even super unsafe moves like DPs. I think every character in the cast has at least two moves that can be punished by it.

For most people (and probably Shago once people learn to use him and his surges) 48% from instinct isn’t that big a deal. It is unbreakable if it hits which is pretty huge but it also costs his whole instinct and the activation. Since the only way to guarantee it is to do it as a punish (since it is easy to hold up and get out of Annihilation since it is a throw) you cannot use your instinct cancel to make a move safe as you need to hold it for the maximum punish. On a largely negative or unsafe character that is a pretty big deal, and the fact that it costs you your entire instinct to even attempt it and it has no invulnerabilities except to throws makes it actually pretty underwhelming. Once people get the hang of the move you shouldn’t be landing it in neutral as it is so easy to counter.


Hm, if they’re instinct-cancelling in front of a ruin, then you were probably going to eat a hard punish even without this move being in the game. I guess the annihilation hurts a tad more than a typical punish combo, but it’s also Shago’s entire instinct, and for plenty of other characters instinct usually nets a 50% lifeswing via more proactive means than a mere punish.

And if they don’t catch you mid-move when they instinct cancel? Just hold downback for 7 seconds. It’ll give Shago some breathing room to set something up (so maybe with more matchup experience you can learn to take bolder risks under the annihilation threat so that it doesn’t give him a free pass to bully you), but if he doesn’t land the annihilation right away then it’s basically not worth doing.

Also, what @MBABanemobius said.


The move is fast enough to catch you if you flinch in the instinct activation from point blank (it’ll catch even jabs, but won’t catch 2+2 non-throw invincible shadow moves, so I think the move is 5f startup after the freeze).

So… don’t flinch. Don’t do an unsafe move when you have 75% health left and Shago has instinct.

It reminds me a bit of TJ’s last breath, which I think is very overrated and overused. It sounds so good on paper but you are giving up so much to use it… so much so, in fact, that you are almost surely costing yourself games by holding on to it. And, as has been stated, the average life swing for Wulf/Jago/Sadira/Orchid/others is way, way over 48%, even if their stuff has some break points in it. If I only lose 35% from Sadira’s instinct, I actually consider that a win for me.

It’s a total non-issue. In fact, it’s cool that Shago has a way to make you nervous in round 3 when you have 45% health left, sort of like how TJ’s last breath IS actually valuable in spots where he values the extra hit more than the extra instinct time (for example, if both players are under 25% health). In a month from now, I suspect we’ll see a ton of tether setups, and in 6 months from now I’m guessing most Shago players won’t be using Annihilation except if it kills someone in round 3.

In Killer Instinct, 48% damage isn’t worth freaking out about.


some characters can have a lot of potential and actual damage out of instinct. the percentage for shago with this move is to much if you compare to Wulf who has only 10% more damage. you must do already a combo of 50% to get an extra 5% damage. I dont know, even when shago’s move is not that safe, it seems hardly fair to me.

It is an extremely risky move, but the amount of unbreakable damage seems extremely high given that the only thing you can really do is jump out of the way or get lucky enough to already have a quick light out which jabs him out of the move. It’s a lot different than Omen’s special move (the name of which I’m forgetting) because while Omen’s generates an ENTIRE health bar of potential damage, you can reverse the effects by playing defensively or getting a Counter Breaker when he goes to open you.

Shadow Jago’s Annihilation takes up to 45% of your life away without any kind of chance to reverse or protect yourself, which I don’t really like. Maybe half of the damage you take from the move could be Potential instead of lost life?

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The other thing to remember as well, is that Annihilation gives the opponent a crap ton of instinct. Watch my instinct bar in this video:

I was a little salty that he basically caught my jumping mid kick though. ■■■■■■■!

Are you saying you’d be okay with giving Shago feral cancels? Hmm… :smirk:

Reminds me of Omen is broken because of his Demonic Despair or Mika is because of her 100 % command grab after a twenty seconds v skill.

The annihilation is far from OP. I mean, the startup is enormous (longer than Omen’s despair I suppose), you can easily jump on reaction, the move only has grab invulnerability (that’s not Decapre’s DCM), your instinct gauge passed from full to nothing and 48 % for a full gauge is “nothing” (I mean, Jago deals more damage and regains health with his), the opponent gains a lot of instinct


Did you even attempt to understand how this move works in training mode before making this suggestion? How about what this move is weak too?

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Yeah, I think I’m kind of with @Infilament on this one. Right now, this move is catching people by surprise and they are shocked at the damage they are taking. But in a month, everyone is going to know that when Shago pops instinct you don’t put yourself out there with unsafe moves. How long does it take for his instinct to go away? 10 seconds? And every moment that you are not being hit actually reduces the damage. So, it’s really just about paying attention to Shago’s instinct meter and knowing what to do if he activiates this move. This is one of those things where, all of the sudden on Thursday there will be not a single player in the KI universe getting hit by it.

Unlike the tether, which the pros are already probably labbing the ■■■■ out of and will come up with incredibly skillful and nearly unbeatable tech for. If, by the time S3 rolls around we are still seeing annihilation popping up anywhere other than in casual matches between friends I will be kind of surprised. I have used it all over the place and I don’t land it better than 50% of the time. That’s a lot of investment for a 50/50 shot at 48% max damage in a game where I’m one counter break from 60% every time I open up my opponent - and if you wait for better opportunities the damage potential goes down substantially. By the time his instinct runs out it’s not much better than a Jago DP. And if you miss and your opponent is anything other than completely panicked, they are going to nail you with a full combo. So that’s a big swing in damage potential.

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I personally would not mind if his damae got nerfed a bit. I feel people will still rely on it way to much. but only time will tell really.

can you go more in depth? im not agree or disagreeing with the OP but what would you consider strong against this move? I know a lot of moves beat it but I can just use it to punish a move and get 48% free damage cant I?