3.8 Tier List by Infil

I’m curious what you think of the the evolution of KI aesthetics-wise from S1 to the present, because at least on these forums it seems to me that a good deal of the negativity stems from a perceived decrease in the quality of content (unrelated to balance and gameplay). Graphics, animation, remix characters, the overall consistency of the presentation, etc.

Talking about that…I played very little SFV but storymode gave me a glance that different characters share stuff (like similar comands and animations). I wasn’t expecting that outside Ryu , Ken and maybe Akuma.

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S1 has the best animated characters on the whole, although IG has produced some superb characters animation-wise too, enough to match anything in S1. Overall though the S2/S3 chars have a few more weak links animation-wise. But compared to some of the SF5/MvCI characters, it’s not so bad. I think the worst animated character in the game still looks “good enough” to not detract from gameplay (despite gross faces, I think Kim and Tusk are animated quite well).

The stage design is great in all seasons, although the recent re-lighting has ruined the look of many stages to me. So I would say S2 was the best the stages looked (barring the “red” stages like Cinder and Fulgore where I can’t see anything… S3 fixed Cinder’s stage kinda sorta but then made Fulgore’s stage redder than it’s ever been for who knows what reason).

Music is great in all seasons, with S2 probably having the best set of tracks (Maya, Aganos, Cinder, etc). I know some people dislike S3’s guitar/metal-heavy track, but because I like that type of music, I really like S3’s soundtrack overall, probably even more than S1’s soundtrack which I think has several weak links. But music is largely personal so it’s hard to make any definitive statement here. I don’t think the music is weaker now than it used to be, though, and Mick’s awesome music is still heard all the time.

I think S3 is the least consistent the game has looked overall, yes. The presentation is very clearly composed of 3 separate seasons of content, and you can see lots of cut corners because of the budget. I’m not a big fan of much of the “new” stuff in S3 (stage relighting, purple shadow meter is hard to see and I don’t like the purple shadow moves, level 4 enders are gross but thankfully can be turned off, the purple and green color scheme is much worse than S1 or S2’s, I like the character select screen okay but I hate the pre-fight VS screen, some characters really “look” like they don’t belong with the aesthetic). Overall I feel like S3 doesn’t look that cohesive and that’s a bummer. They could have really benefited from someone with a unified artistic vision to say no to some of these features that pushed it away from cohesiveness.

But despite my issues with S3’s presentation and MS’s recent handling of the game, I’m still going to champion the gameplay, which I think offers the most fun and unique “choices per second” of any FG on the market right now, and I’m going to try to convince people to play it because the game does way more right than it does wrong.

I really think some people expect games to be “perfect” in all ways (however you define that), because they have inflated memories of how perfect their first fighting games are – they often didn’t even know enough at that time to identify the flaws in their favorite game, and as time goes on, the power of nostalgia means that it gets cemented even more and it’s hard to appeal to them rationally. However, all of our favorite games are usually deeply flawed, and the quicker you come to realize that, the faster you can start to find the thing you DO love about the game and enjoy that to its fullest, rather than slander the game waiting for a theoretically perfect game in the future that will never exist.

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care to play sfv sometime?

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Oh that.
I’m extremelly free, I’ve never played SF in my life. I just decided to take Karin to the lab and see if I can learn a minimal combo with her. I know nothing.

However, I was told I can’t play that game with brazilians (because of lag) I can’t even imagine with ppl from the States. I’ve heard is hell.
Very bad netcode outside people who is close =(

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Yeah, I’m pretty doubtful that your connection with Dul will be very good. Nothing fails but a try though, so worth a shot at least.

In terms of the question regarding KI’s look/aesthetics from season to season, I think a lot of the complaints are overblown, and many are “wrong” in my estimation. I personally disliked S1’s UI and think S2 improved upon it, and that S3 improved on S2 (so yeah, I’m one of the guys who actually likes the S3 menus/color scheme). The relighting made some of the stages look better I think (Sadira, Aria, Cinder), but really wrecked Thunder’s and Spinal’s. So it kind of all comes out as a wash, and overall I think KI still has some of the most attractive and interesting stage designs in a modern fighter. The old shadow effect was definitely better though.

As to the animation quality, I’ve always thought the knocks against later KI seasons were insanely overblown. I don’t think TJ animates poorly, and I think Maya is the only character for me that has ever seemed a bit stiff. The best of IG’s work holds up quite well with the best of DH’s, though I agree that S1 doesn’t really have any weak links in their character animations. The furor over recycled animations and “lazy” design for characters like Omen is absolute nonsense IMO, and largely made by people who have apparently never played a fighting game before.

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I couldn’t restraint myself, sorry Maru XD

Amen to that

One thing I have learned in the past 2 years of watching this scene is that top players do not like ‘drastic’ changes to their character. This was considered the problem with NRS games, and KI shared these criticisms - the always-in-beta feel.

James Chen recently talked about it in his ‘Uncensored’ series, where everyone is in love with the past, but old versions of the games had criticisms as well. However, we’re in an era of many good fighting games, and if players want to earn a living playing fighting games, they will gravitate towards the games that are likely to give them the most exposure, even if it isn’t their favorite game.

Regardless of the criticisms, Sony/Capcom ensured that Street Fighter V became an e-Sport last year. Whatever plan Microsoft or the KI Community leaders had for KI post-Evo 2016, it was not well executed. Unfortunately for KI, its most vocal critics were also some of its most popular streamers. Twitch chats became so toxic that some streamers stopped playing the game on Twitch because of it. I can still remember watching an 8bitbeatdown, where I spent most of the time staring at the chat because 2 popular players and an IG developer were at it :persevere:.

Would Season 3 have been better received if it had launched with characters in their current state? Very likely. Should Microsoft had taken over the KI World Tour and throw money at it in an attempt to turn KI into an e-Sport? I do not know. From what I have seen, Microsoft is letting the community decide the fate of KI. The KI community is very young, so I suppose we have to go through the various growing pains that other titles have had to go through to reach where they are …

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dont do that, i asked you first day you got it lmao

I think this is fair, although I think people are really only asked to change their character’s playstyle at the start of each season with only a few exceptions (Gargos, Arbiter come to mind). Even someone like Fulgore, who has seen some nerfs in recent patches and has been a hot topic around here recently, I don’t think has had to really change his gameplan all that much.

If you don’t want to play a game that is changing decently often, though, then yeah KI might be a bit of a hard sell. But I do think the amount to which KI has changed has been really grossly overexaggerated. People lose 10% damage on their character’s main tool and they make it sound like they have to relearn every matchup in the game sometimes.

Sure, but there are very, very few people looking to earn a living playing fighting games. But yes, most of them will be playing SFV, Injustice, or Tekken (those games with pro tours, basically).

The rest of us should be playing games we like, because tournament winnings for Xrd, KI, and even Smash are not really anything to live off of (although KI has had some pretty big paydays during the ultra tour), and if you try to play SFV for money, you will quickly find that unless you are a world class talent, you will never even sniff the money, so you’ll need to find different motivation.

It’s had a big effect on everything. Twitch streamers stopped getting viewers for the game because many viewers didn’t want to put up with the toxicity, which in turn led some streamers to think that KI was dying because it was a bad game, so it fueled their toxicity even further. It’s cost us lots of community involvement too, with people like Zombie and Keits (and me, to some degree) no longer really engaging or donating their time/energy to building the scene.

I actually don’t think the situation is fully lost yet, but it would require an attitude shift from people who I don’t think are willing to give one.

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I have seen FGC leaders state that not everyone needs to be a top player to earn a living in the FGC. Content creation is also an avenue that they can explore as a means of earn a living, either directly or indirectly. Twitch and YouTube facilitate this, and other platforms are trying to do it as well. Whilst some former KI streamers may not be the best SFV/INJ2/TK7 players, they are building an audience by streaming those games. Some have even had success streaming non-fighting games. More exposure thus leads to other opportunities.

Agreed. If KI evangelist are no longer preaching/streaming, an attitude shift is unlikely.

I’m not following the meaning in that meme Dayv0, sorry about that u.u (I only slept 3 hours).

I’m just 100% honest that by that I meant there’s no point for me playing SFV right now because I can’t even land a 2 hit combo.

And I don’t like playing anything with no idea at all. So ,losing for free it’s just not my style XD

KI can really benefit from a few more online tournaments. KI’s netcode is really well done and most of the playerbase can’t go to tournaments. Things like 8-Bit Beatdown can really help out. It would be nice if there was an official Microsoft online tournament using the money from Kilgore’s community fund!

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^^^this

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Probably for the best there’s no way to explain it in a non-offensive way.

I can’t help but disagree. I think the game had changed tremendously. From the way the tier list controls the Meta of the game to how we play it based on the mechanics introduced.

Season 3 is not close to what s2 or s1 did because this used to be a Game with no flip out and stagger, no air breakers, unbreakable sweeps, fight hitstun in manuals, change in properties of numerous moves throughout the cast, etc.

KI has had so many patch notes that what this game was from day 1 is nowhere near how you’d okay this Game in the present.

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Personally I’m exhausted with the community and don’t really want to be involved with the game all that much aside from playing with specific people every now and then

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Pretty much this, and I say this as someone who first started with Season 3, with the PC port, and the negativity and attitude of the community has just been a massive turn off. I feel for people who’ve tolerated it since day 1, lol. Game is fun, but its extremely tedious having to put up with some of the people. I stick to just playing a few choice people rarely, but overall I’d rather spend my time playing with people who actually seem to be having fun with their game, hence why I’ve gone back to KOF14 and GG.

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I agree. Apart from grinding for colors and making sure I’ll be keeping my shiny Killer title card once a month, I only play KI with friends.

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