Well, I generally meant “in between season” I suppose. Yes, S1 to S2 and S2 to S3 were pretty big leaps, but it’s fine to think of those as new games in a sense (ie, Alpha 2 to Alpha 3, or 2nd Impact to 3rd Strike).
I’m just trying to say that people in general freak out about patch notes when in reality, there are only a few characters that have drastic game-changing shifts in a given season. Most of the time, you can play a character pretty much the same from start to finish, and even if some of your tools do change, there is a good basic gameplan still built in your muscle memory that works perfectly fine while you adjust to the change. People pretend like every patch is a new game and I don’t agree at all.
FWIW 10% is not insignificant. I agree in some circumstances it’s fairly harmless. But KI is predicated on risk vs. reward scenarios. 10% can easily tilt that scale one way or another. To the point that a tool loses extensive value and many matches have to be relearned as another tool or strategy must take its place.
Eh, 10% is basically 1% on a move that does 10% life (and there aren’t very many of those, even, especially with KI’s aggressive damage scaling after the first hit). When Fulgore got a decently big hit to his damage in S2, he went from doing 50% combos to 45% combos, so the worst that happened to him was he had to throw a few more fireballs or open his opponent up one more time (ie, nothing changed about the way you played the game, you just had to play a bit more of it). Sure, eventually you might find that a new strategy can be slightly better because of a damage nerf, but this doesn’t need to happen immediately… the developers were not sweeping the rug from under your feet.
There are exceptions to this of course, and perhaps every character in the game has had at least one mid-season change that doesn’t fall in this category during either S2 or S3, but over a period of 2.5 years, I think most people played their characters in a fairly stable way from patch to patch.
Agreed! but you know there is always going to be that stubborn group that will ignore the facts and swear to the death that they are right. SMDH.
KI is the best fighting game of this generation.
@DEClimax@Papstr1@Fwufikins I hear yall to the fullest. In every community there are people who fail to realize people gravitate towards enthusiasm and positive energy, and don’t want to be around negativity. In a small, young/new community like KI’s, negative folks unfortunately stick out quite strong and have an impact on folks wanting to stay around. This game really shines when you have another human mind to go against, and with the game getting closer and closer to really solid gameplay balance, now is the best time to play KI! Sorry bad apples in the community have stricken bad nerves. I get it. And I’ve seen it run off folks. I hope you continue to enjoy KI with folks who have a good time with the game! There’s a chance that with proper attitude adjustments our community can realize we all have an impact and will go on an upswing and be more positive! I myself can’t wait to earn some ultimates in one week! If you’re in the Austin area, we keep pretty level heads and meet up pretty often for KI (at least weekly).
Well, on the streaming side, @INDIxion is a newer-ish KI player (with an SF background) who hosts really entertaining streams of the game, if you ever want to watch someone who’s just having a lot of fun and who genuinely enjoys KI. I try to stream as well, if you’re interesting in watching high-level Hisako and mid-level other characters. Both chats are pretty chill and fun, and I know I always have a blast when I’m playing the game
I do agree with the list but I think Gargos should be in S- tier instead of A he still has some great mixups and he can still be strong then again I haven’t played KI in some time so I could be wrong.
Your mistake is thinking that he is picking Fulgore because is your profile picture
Since the begining of S2, Fulgore got a lot of changes, mostly nerfs. He got damage nerfs, but STILL, he plays basically the same. S2 launch Fulgore and S3 actual Fulgore has fewer differences than, dunno, launch Thunder-actual Thunder
Infil’s point is that people overexaggerates how characters are changed. Fulgore is a prime example. If you refered to a particular character, name it so we can discuss how it changed(or not!)
I appreciate you speaking for other people. That’s kind of you.
It’s interesting that you cherry picked S2 and left out S1 fulgore (perhaps because with charge reactor and completely different zoning he did indeed play differently).
Cheers my friend.
“People over exaggerate” is generic. People downplay changes. How’s that? People like cake. People dislike cake. I can go on for days. This is precisely my point, you can say 10% never matters, until it does. There is a tipping point in balance (that’s actually how balance works mathematically) I would have thought you fighting game enthusiasts would know that. So you just have to hit fireball one more time, I don’t know how you guy scan see that as insignificant. TJ has “last breath” which literally just makes it so you have to hit him one more time. How many matches have TJ’s won because of this mechanic, how many matches does someone being 1% away from danger matter? A move can have a property change a mid to a low, a move can have a frame changed by just 1 frame which can significantly impact a character.
I’m not saying that 10% always matters, often matters, etc. I’m saying it’s significant and can matter. And if a character is right on the cusp balance wise it can tilt the scale. Logically this has to make sense, if it did not matter then why did they make that adjustment to begin with? That is all.
Indeed, but this is not unique to Fulgore, and even then, it’s not THAT huge. The change actually helped Fulgore a lot to fix in S2, since his gameplay was EXTREMELLY defensive, and his gameplan would be hard to fit in the game’s tempo.
You could say whatever you want, but this(a character being changed) is not unique to Fulgore. Spinal, Maya or Aganos got significant changes to them between seasons(Skulls cancels/curse changes, dagger ender, armor changes).
I’m not picking you(although you seem to do so in your post). OF COURSE changes happens. But some people overreacts some of the changes.
For the record I liked most of the S1 to S2 changes, I think it made him a more versatile character. I hope you’re not construing my examples as complaints. They’re simply supportive examples for the point I’m trying to make.
And yes sometimes people overreact. Similarly sometimes people downplay. I don’t disagree with either sentiment. Simply put I feel 10% is not always an insignificant figure.
I mentioned Fulgore because he came to my mind as a character who had a damage reduction when I was writing that post. I didn’t think about whether you or others in this thread mained Fulgore when I wrote it. If you like, you can replace that with any other character with a damage reduction and get the same gist of my post.
For example, Sadira also got a damage reduction on her webs. It made her quite a bit worse, but importantly it didn’t really change much about how Sadira players play… it just means that you have to open your opponent up (way) more often using the same tools. Which, of course, means she is a worse character, just like how a 10% damage reduction Fulgore is a worse character, but largely requires the player to use the same tools and have the same muscle memory as he had before.
Over time, Sadira players have looked for ways to mitigate the lost damage on her webs, and they have probably evolved their playstyle a bit because of that. They find new tricks and strategies they didn’t need to rely on before because of how strong web was. For sure, that can and will happen, like how Jago players are exploring new pressure options now that M wind kick isn’t very good (although I would consider M wind kick Jago’s “one big mid-season change” that I talked about before). My point, though, is that a damage reduction does not immediately force a player to revamp their entire playstyle. They can, and largely do, still use the same tools in the same ways 99% of the time. The worst thing that typically happens is that you have to redo the muscle memory for a counter breaker combo, because (say) the shadow ender isn’t worth it anymore. But the original combo will still work, even if you get like 2% less damage than the new optimal version, while you make that change, and it’s not the end of the world.
It’s also interesting to look at how characters have changed because of the buffs/berfs/reworks they got.
For example, Wulf’s overhead is easier to react to, and is much easier to break in combo than in s1. On paper that sounds pretty bad, when you don’t consider that now his Hamstring can hit from half screen and now his Run linkers do a metric fuckload of damage
Or how Maya got a general damage buff, which seems really good, but she also lost some of her utilities and her mega damage ender
If you’re in the Austin area, we keep pretty level heads and meet up pretty often for KI (at least weekly).