Neither of you are wrong.
You make a determination based off what you see with your own eyes.
They are making a determination based off paper stats.
They believe its possible and you believe its only possible if its been done.
I can understand both sides but I lean more toward the “I believe what I see”
Yeah that’s what’s happening here 
'cause I think is very easy to say “Omen can do that, lock meter, he’s S tier…” looks like the opponent don’t know Omen’s weaknesses, or Omen won’t be punished for anything that he does. I just don’t see that OPness they’re saying. Omen is balanced, not broken. An Omen can get top 8 or maybe be the world champion? With a lot of effort I think it’s possible, I’m just saying there are some characters that is easier to get there - Mira, Gargos and Cinder are examples.
No. Rico made top 8 With omen long ago. As did I at NEC two years ago. Zipstar also got top 8 With him recently. And runex made top 8 at evo with him. Tournament placings aren’t all that go into this either. Fulgore had been considered the best character long before he won a major. And it took cinder 2 years to finally do it. Gargos still hasn’t won one outside sleeps counter pick. And the only person to use gargos and no one else and place consistently was Rico,who is probably the best player in the game’s history. I say omen is as strong as he is because ive been playing him since launch. Not because of tournament placings. If we went off tournament placing alone sadira wouldn’t be considered a bad character.
It’s sad… but so true… 
Also one more thing you’re not looking at. All the people behind Mira cinder Gargos that consistently made top 8 were amazing players long before those characters existed. Nate has only been able to go offline twice. So the strongest omen wasn’t able to be seen much. Since then others have made top 8. More omen (4) players have made top 8 at tournaments than Mira (3) players or Gargos (3)players or cinder (3) players. That logic doesnt work. They just weren’t able to frequent as many offline events.
To be fair, the last time Rico picked Omen in top 8, the game was significantly different. I don’t think it would be fair to use him as an example. Also… it’s Rico, he could make top 8 with half the cast.
He used him in s3 for top 8 as well he went to him at txs alot. And while the game was different when Rico used him more often omen was a weaker character then.
I think this discussion is pointless. We just have different opinions. I have much respect for you and your opinion, already see you use Omen a few times, but it’s just not me, a lot of people think Omen is not that great, even the Omen players of the forums except you think Omen is balanced at max, not an S tier (am I wrong @ItzTymeToDul @FallofSeraphs76 @DurtyDee810? ). You and the others pro think Omen is great, I respect that, and I think he’s regular like most characters of the cast. I started playing KI on the beginning of the year and stopped after 1 month, so S2 stuff I didn’t watch, just the recently 2016-2017 championships.
I can’t like this post enough.
I think Omen is great, I just think Gargos is just as good if not better.
Omen has almost every tool to be top tier. His counter hit damage is crap compared to somebody like Jago.
But Omen is still really strong.
I’ve said it before and will say it again - “but X hasn’t won a tournament/made Top 8/no one plays them” is a terrible, repeat terrible, way to evaluate a character. It’s the same logic that had people (to very much include top players) saying that launch Mira, she of the low-risk mist and cheap heavy linkers if you pressed light, was unviable and bottom 2. People said the same thing about Aria for a while too, until Seadragon started putting in work with the character in the 8 Bit Beatdowns. If Nicky did not exist, Fulgore would have never seen a Top 8 outside of Rico counter picking with him in S2 sometimes.
Just because a character hasn’t made Top 8 does not suddenly remove moves from their toolbox. A character is the summation of their tools as they exist within the context of the cast; tournament placings can sometimes reflect that, and sometimes not. Some characters are difficult to unlock, other characters may simply not draw attention from anyone good enough or suited enough to them to showcase their talents, and for others maybe it’s just that the very best don’t travel. Sometimes, maybe a really good character just runs afoul of the fact that hey, Bass and Nicky and Sleep and the other usual suspects are just really effin good. There are a ton of reasons a character might not be played or be popular or be successful in tournament - if you want to evaluate how good that character is, look at the toolbox.
And Omen has made Top 8’s in S3, to include a Top 8 at Evo. I don’t think anyone is saying he’s OP or unbalanced - we’re just saying he’s very good, and has been for a while.
What storm said. No character is op. This is one of the most balanced fighters around. So even if aria Mira and omen are a step above others it doesn’t make them op or unbalanced.
This is worth pulling out because it comes up literally every time we have a discussion about tiers. So I have a question for you (generic you):
In a world where Circa Nicky’s dad never meets Circa Nicky’s mother, how good is Fulgore at the end of S2/start of S3?
The character has won no tournaments as a main, and has only been seen in Top 8 once or twice where he was used by Rico Suave as a counterpick. Rico, the same guy who got 2nd at Evo with a Glacius counterpick in S1, and who plays literally half the cast at tournament level.
In this world, where does Fulgore fall on the tier list? Is he just a bad MU for Thunder, but otherwise mediocre? I mean, he hasn’t even been seen in Top 16’s throughout the year.
So how good is Fulgore in S2 without Nicky to show him off? I’m genuinely curious what those who dismiss “paper stats” think here.
I wasnt saying that the train of thought isnt correct. I am just pointing out the difference in opinion and thought patterns of @MariusStriker and @MnTLetalis.
Neither are wrong at this point becasue there is no concrete proof either way.
And to answer your question on Fulgore, I still think he is one of the best. I dont do tier lists or really study them so if I tried to place him in a tier I wouldnt really know what Im talking about…Id only be guessing or being stubborn. But I tend to think Fulgore is really good, better than most characters when I face him.
To be fair all of my determinations come from experience rather than relying soley on paper. I’ll fight against a character alot as well as use them myself to determine how good they are.
And you’ve been right about everything thus far. 
Yes I prob just grouped you in that thought pattern of paper since the discussion was mainly between you and Marius. But i think most of you get what I am trying to say to Marius.
I will say this …the more I play other characters, the more i realize how great Omens buttons really are.
I think Omen is strong, not cause he has weak damage or cause he has bad wake up.
The dude literally can start the match and do what he wants from the start of the match. Not to mention his mix up is nigh infinite. Do you have to play smart? YES. he’s not a character that can get up for free nor comeback with one or two combos. He relies on somewhat confusion of the opponent and solid neutral. His grounded buttons are GREAT, his air normas are GREAT. His fireballs are SOLID, his shadow moves are GREAT.
No kidding… didn’t even realize he had Jago’s plus advantage on instinct until Dul showed off double manuals that I thought only Jago had access too.
Yeah none of us knew that, not even Infil until Keits told us a year or so ago. It never stated in the Moves menu or in any Omen data listings. Im pretty sure im the one that shared it on here with Infil.
It was when Shago came out since they all 3 share that trait… thats when we found out I believe.