Omg Kim’s ultra rhythm
They can all spend meter to shadow cancel from the meter they gain from battery enders or while blocking that Fulgore doesn’t have access to that form of meter. He can shadow cancel but not that often. Definitely not often enough to justify a change. His lasers are also 0 and -2 so he doesn’t have the upclose Jago pressure either.
Excited to try out these “Jago Nerfs.”
With every Nerf/Buff comes a new setup.
An optimistic one, you are.
What do you think needs to be toned down?
I still can’t express enough how much I appreciate the rationale given with each change. Even if the change doesn’t make sense to me on the surface, the rationale gives me an idea of where you guys are taking the meta game.
Also dat RAAM change. Me likey so happy.
Part of the problem with reading the change list is not being able to see how these things work in practice. I imagine most of the time, in most matchups, jago is still going to be safe after a properly spaced wind kick. We’ll just have to wait and see.
I’m interested in seeing how the top jago players adapt to this. I’m hoping that we’ll see more hit confirms on his late-cancellable normals–this was always a strong part of the character, but there wasn’t that much reason to focus on it because wind kick was so similar in application while being much easier to use.
Ki world cup was the best I was sad when it finish lol
Assuming spacing isn’t an issue, Sabrewulf, RAAM, and Tusk should now all get a meterless punish on any strength of Wind Kick.
Dare I say that Jago might have bad matchups now?
@rukizzel will the update come out tomorrow or will it be out in 4 hours like some updates have in the past?
Spacing is an issue, I had a brief look at what would connect with Jago after medium wind kick hit with max spacing with Jago, Wulf, Glacius and Spinal.
Jago: heavy DP should punish as it doesn’t currently due to hitting slightly later due to range, shadow laser sword will also punish.
Sabrewulf: light eclipse whiffs, however crouch jab or strong both reach, and crouch MK also reaches and does slightly more damage (but no target combo obviously).
Glacius: crouch jab reaches, didn’t check shadows
Spinal: lights don’t reach so has to spend meter but IIRC shadow soul sword will punish.
For sure some MUs will be harder, Warrior MP should reach no trouble for a grounded punish (not tested but it surely will) and even if it doesn’t he also has light DP, shadow DP and shadow club smash to punish with.
I would expect medium wind kick to be fully unusable against most characters except as a confirm or instinct cancel, much like how H wind kick is currently used. Against some specific characters like Aria you might get away with it slightly more often, but on the whole I think it will be firmly in the “never use” camp moving forward. Or, at least, when you DO use it, you have to plan for it to hit… you can’t use it as space control or as a check.
About 9-10am PDT.
Im a jago main, and at first I was pretty salty about the changes until I remembered instinct. That plus 2 advantage is going to mean a lot more now than it used too I think. At least once a match medium windkick will be safe again.
Sad to see Mira’s reaping linker bug go away. But I am curious, the patch notes only mentioned reaping, the trephine linker also had the bug, will that still be on 3.7?
I’ll have to remember this when I get home. That’s some Grade A KI meme material right there.
Not entirely sure on that one, if you’re using it in footsies you’ll likely be left at a range where a lot of the cast without 6 frame mediums will be unable to punish for a grounded combo. While Wulf and Glacius get jab punishes even at max range they have rather long ranged light normals, and a <7 long ranged normal is fairly rare. Jago (and likely Fulgore) for example will get a DP punish without spending meter which isn’t too bad on the risk reward really. It will definitely be a much more MU specific tool now though.
Aganos’ natural disaster not fixed so that it actually hits twice like it should after the first hit connects?
Even though I am not a Jago player, as a Fulgore main, Jago is probably the chracter closets to Fulgore in special moves. That M wind kick seems pretty devastating, The only thing I could imagine is that there is enough push back from M wind kick that even at -6, it some how still remains safe, but it definitely ends Jago’s turn. I think similar to a change they made to Glacius’ cold shoulder when they changed the frame data on it. The move still seems pretty safe. I rarely used Glacius, but even M cold shoulder, I wasn’t getting punished. Maybe my opponent just wasn’t good enough because I can’t use him against anyone that somewhat knows how to play the game.
Though it’s interesting to see how Jago lost full screen shadow wind kick but Fulgore still has his. (though I think Jago’s move was much faster and virtually unreactable, where as Fulgore’s is a tad bit slower in movement. Though Jago does output more damage than Fulgore and gets meter much easier too. So between those, it allows for Jago to still be very good.
As for the Nerf on Fulgore’s pip cancel of bolt into laser. I will be one to suffer a bit from this, because this was a strat that I used for zoning (as I am not very good at it) Guess that means Fulgore players will need to use more multi-bolts followed by laser. I think it will slightly slow down the process but not really stop it. Watching Nicky, he actaully timed H laser to snipe the landing after bolt, and the spacing between the moves didn’t eat a pip, so I don’t think this will be a huge change for the bot.
As for Gargos, the change of dash and grab is definitely needed. I am scrubby with Gargos, and even I felt like that move was a little bit OP with how quick you could snag your opponent. As for the izuni drop losing HKD, I think by timing a meaty sweep off of quick rise or even a portal punch, you can now keep pressure up (in theory, remember, I am terrible at this game) and then if you get that quick pop up from combo, or sweep, then minion coming in is safe. Just need to make sure they don’t have a shadow projectile invulnerable move on deck they could check you with.
I don’t think you can cancel laser into another laser.