Let me stop you right there, you could also do medium and heavy flurry kick from that, and it all had the same animation.
Is that the amount of damage done?
Apologies, not that well versed in the lingo, and my mind is clouded by a cold…
You know that bar underneath your combo hits that goes to 100? If that goes over 100 you cause a blowout and unable to cash out your white life buildup.
I do disagree, but not in a mean spirited way. I think Glacius is a very strong character, and has been in every version of KI. But I have never thought (nor do I think know) that he is a very good zoner. He has always been a medium range sort of space control character. That may not be the right phrase and I’m not trying to split hairs, but what I mean is he doesn’t really lock anyone down at distance. His hail is 100% most effective if he’s holding it above his head and is less about zoning than about preventing crossups. Yes, Glacius has zoning but it’s really more about keeping characters just out of reach and one of the ways he does that is with the threat of rushdown that he gets from cold shoulder as a quick medium range move that gets into combo.
For the record, none of that bothers me and I’m perfectly happy with every version of Glacius so far (and I will get used to this one). But his “strike invincible reversal” (in addition to not be strike invincible as @zcythe points out) is basically the only thing that he has to keep you from standing near him and just hitting jab until you open him up. And to beat it all you have to do is hit throw. So unlike the DP type reversals in the game Glacius has to make a choice to decide if you are going to throw or strike and then decide to tech the throw or try for the combo with puddle punch. He doesn’t have a single option to beat both - especially with his floaty jump that makes the standard neutral jump more risky for him than for most. Otherwise, he doesn’t have much in the way of close range properties - and like the superior DP type moves puddle punch is highly punishable. And remember, that starting a combo is only the beginning in KI.
It’s fine to not like this aspect of the character. I’m not sure it adequately explains why we made it okay through to patch 3.4 before we needed to change this. It’s not like Glacius has been in flux and we’ve been seeing a lot of new and degenerate gameplay with him. So, yeah, I just disagree. I don’t think Glacius is now or ever has been a strict zoner archetype, and frankly I don’t see this change as making him more of a zoner. It does mean, however, that one of his best ways to start a real combo is basically just gone.
I’m not complaining - Glacius is strong and will remain strong. I just don’t quite understand this.
Heavy puddle does just under 14% damage (the same as jago’s heavy dp to be exact). And it’s fully invincible during the first few active frames. So the only way you lose then is due to the priority system.
Plus each version starts up differently. What’s the problem?
Last night, I did get to see the one thing I really would’ve liked to see addressed that wasn’t - invincible reversal->safe shadow. Had a Jago do wakeup DP->shadow fireball->DP->shadow fireball->DP against me, and I was just kinda like “really? Really?”
Even apart from how much meter gain Jago has to make stuff like that possible, that is just some serious fuckery right there. Why can a character do two back-to-back safe invincible reversals, and then tack on another DP for good measure? It’s bad enough having to deal with med windkick->throw/DP - medium windkick->throw/safe DP->second DP for the hell of it is kinda pushing it.
Not game-breaking and doesn’t change that this was a phenomenal patch, but definitely something I’d love to see addressed in the future.
I say it would be fair if Fulgore keeps his Dp canceled into fireball. Seems fair to me. Jago really needs it nerfed.
This looks like it was most everything I wanted. Can’t want to hear Infil’s take.
The super slow animation?
So I tested out the new Omen at lunch online and Im not liking the corner change. You can barely manual off the throw…its really tight, and there is some push back as well. Its as if you are locked into a recovery to were you can push a button but nothing comes out.
You definitely can still instinct cancel into slide off of throw.
Also TJs shoot toss after target combo is nearly inescapable. The block stun is so heavy from the target combo you cant jump out of the shoot toss even though you know its coming. At least I couldn’t with Omen.
I’m not impressed with the Omen change… I find it odd that 1 guy exploits a move and everyone has to suffer from the changes. Even if it was 5 Omen players world wide, that never won an offline tournament, never hit #1 in ranked… yet used this so called ambiguous move off of throw… does it really need to be changed?
Only the MP xx MK TC xx shoot toss can snag you if you’re blocking. The MP xx HP TC xx shoot toss will whiff on you if canceled into early. And that’s without instinct.
Eyedol got reworked hah?Glad to see that,also thunder nerfs look nice.more work for more dmg is always better
Ahhh…ok, thanks…Ill check the replay and see if that what it was for sure. SO why is that ok? I mean , TJs are hu huh huh canceling powerline over and over and fake target combos and then they throw in the shoot toss and you cant escape it on block. thats kind of cheap
You just need more knowledge.
how would more knowledge matter if the 2nd hit of the blocked target combo locks you into an inescapable command grab? Unless you can poke him out of the shoot toss instead of jumping?
The Medium TC is only beatable by jumping, backdashing or using invincible. The Heavy TC whiffs if canceled into shoot toss early. So you can poke him out there. In instinct canceling into shoot toss (and it connects) only works from his overhead and crouching normals.
If TJ shoot tosses you and you weren’t staggered or wall splatted, then by definition you could have jumped it, as you can’t be thrown out out of either hitstun or blockstun. He may have good ticks into it (where jumping it is difficult to recognize and react), but if shoot toss hits you, you could technically have jumped or backdashed it.
And the Omen thing is a good change. Completely ambiguous combo options that do solid damage leads to degenerate play. Omen’s throw->furious flurry in the corner was like TJ’s old tremor in the corner or Kan’s original whirl, a pure guess for the defender.
Yep they did
okay so got my Eyedol games in and here is my current outlook
Great things -
Overall gameplan seems to remain intact and none of the changes have really hurt anything too badly! So everyone who hated Eyedol before not sure, I assume still going to hate him but the hate is unfounded so whatever.
Fixed Dp land instinct cancel - Lol glad this is gone, I scrubbed out more than 1 win with this.
New J.hp - hopefully people can stop complaining, move is still good but the new animation changes how you use it somewhat, I do find jump back + Hp is a much better air to air now since it sticks out in front a small bit or at least it appears to, I never checked the hitbox so this could be my imagination
Meh Things -
Cr.mp change is a great quality of life change for everyone else and I don’t think it hurts Eyedol at all so while yes he is worse without it, it largely doesn’t matter so meh
F+Mp change another good quality of life chagne to everyone else. I do miss using this in footsies but it was probably too powerful as a footsie tool to begin with so now its still good but you have to work a little hard to use it, and everyone else is happy. Only matchup I think it changes is people with advancing lows as its harder to react with it and crush them from further out.
B+MP change - Now that its not cancelable I can see how this would help in some matches but I also don’t think it was necessary? If you cancel b+mp you are more likely to switch and as such lose your powerful zoning tools, especially now that medium attacks have the potential to cause switches. In matches it was a problem it was only really a problem when combined with how good bolt was, and now that has been nerfed a bit as well I think with the “nerf” to b+mp of increasing chance to switch, and making bolt worse it losing its cancelability was maybe unneccessary? Im fine with it either way as I still think his zoning game remains in tact with out it. I liked to use in pressure from specific ranges but now that is gone not really for better or worse it just is.
KV Changes to Dp and qcf+p ender - I think i still understand this as @Infilament pointed out it was kind of silly to lvl1 ender, dp, recap xN in combos before but the fact is that was all not the hardest thing to break in the world and so there were still outs and also didn’t accure that much damage. Now if I want to end a combo into a recap I have to really watch my KV because i can’t preform a hp dp, or mp dp or raw f+mp mixup as often do to the HP Dp blowing out more because of the increased KV leading up to it. I don’t think this change really does anything to help players against Eyedol and it largely just makes his combo paths more routine in my opinion. All in all like I said I don’t think it really harms him to lose them but for me personally it lost some fun factor. I’d like to know if this was really a concern for other players or if anyone else has insight into why this should be changed because perhaps I missed it.
J.mp and j.hp Wizard Mode change - Makes wizard mode much worse and even with the changes to allow MP and HP attacks to cause change I still am not changing out as often as I would like too. I think Wizard is clearly strong in the right situation but now losing the ability to create some distance quickly when you do change mid juggle combo or something like that with Eyedol or when you read a jump is hard. It’d be nice to have the distance back, but maybe it really was too strong? Right now I just feel like he bounces almost nowhere and the moves lost a lot of utility.
Overall at least judging by what I have seen from the community people got really hung up on the initial jump hp and never bothered to look into things once it was changed. I think the changes made by the team show a lot of insight into their feelings on the character and Im glad nothing was taken to far! Great work IG design team I think these changes really show close examination of the characters.
edit: so much for nice formatting numbers got all screwed : (