So with the new patch around the corner. What change is what you guys do for patch 3.4? Buffs? Nerfs?
For me I think he’s pretty balanced but I would change his summons from one shadow meter to using 2 per minion. Reduce the height of his quad jumps. I don’t think any character can get as high as he does. Slightly adjust the distance of his ranged AD.
have to keep it short now going back to work, but want to read what you guys would do.
I remember in the first stream of that character, they said he is effective only in an “arc”, and that close-mid he was easily abuse-able. But i dont see that. He has a few too many strategies that are effective when they should be weak.
I would vote for slightly reduced hitboxes and more recovery on his portal punches. They should not be as good as they are by themselves. Only with minions out should they be so effective.
he gets a little too much damage for short combos, throws, and quick resets. I think he should be forced to play the rush down game, or the zoning game, and not be able to get in-and-out so fast. I would take away some damage from all of his grabs and enders. If you get high damage from something, a free set-up or range advantage should not be attainable.
Making Minions cost full meter is functionally removing Minions from his kit, as one lone Minion is now the only possibility, and solo Minions are both difficult to keep alive and not very helpful. At that point, nobody would waste their meter. One Minion is worth trading a SC or EX Grab for (if you’ve got 2 bars and think you’ll be able to set up the second) - but a SC AND EX Grab (or whatever combination of utility 2 bars would’ve bought you)? Most certainly not. At least, not without something absolutely insane to make up for it, like making the minion unhittable and instead operate on a ridiculously long timer (like 25-30 seconds).
Maybe the height of his quad jump? I’d rather see an improvement to RAAM’s reversal height, but overall I’m pretty meh there.
Ranged AD’s shouldn’t lose range either, or what’s the point? If his pesky punch-zoning can’t threaten a combo fullscreen, again, they gotta have something to make up for it. They already aren’t all that great without Minions, so I don’t know what that’d be - safe on block maybe?
I don’t know what I’d change about Gargos, but I do know that these suggestions would gimp him into unplayability. Your avatar made me think you like the guy, but man, you can’t go talkin’ 'bout your friends momma like that… that’s cold.
EDIT: I do know what I would change. The HKD off of his Damage Ender. That is bogus and needs to go. I would, however, like the HKD from Burst back - it was the only way to truly guarantee that at least once per match you’ll have a safe opportunity to summon. Sure, he’s got a good handful of safe summon setups, but none as reliable as the one that required first you get a bit of your arse handed to you, then cost a minimum of 50% INSX.
Let Kim Wu shoot dragons when she firecrackers the minions
EDIT: I have more.
-Remove HKD of Devil’s Divide damage option
-Decrease recoil off reckoning so more characters can chase him and/or punish him (only Kim Wu can consistently afaik)
-Nerf the tracking a bit on heavy oblivion
-Have all minions on screen get hit by combo breakers
I feel like I’m being a bit harsh, but these are just my knee jerk responses. These are just things that really frustrate me when I fight the character. Of course I can take a life bar when I knock him down, but getting there is very irritating. So I don’t think Gargos is too good, just that he’s irritating to fight.
This is only really annoying because of how brainless it is with minions. He just moves the camera too high for you to see where you are and stays up there while minions attack you offscreen and you can’t tell what side to block.
I think Gargos is largely misunderstood. Sure wanting to destroy the Earth is bad for the press. In fact the only person who has worse press is the Hillary/Trump campaign for election. He needs something that would make himself more presentable.
For starters… I would change his command grab to a command hug. Let him spread the love. Instead of summoning minions, he’ll summon bouquets of flowers.
Would it be crazy to reduce the range on reckoning for all three versions?
I’d also reduce the amount of shadow meter that he can steal from the opponent with sadistic appetite. In fact, I don’t think that it’d be the worst idea to get rid of that all together and maybe have him steal a small amount of life bar instead. Maybe devouring minions could still give him shadow meter though?
Back to Gargos though, I can’t say I love the idea of using a full shadow meter just to summon one minion. I think that’s a great mechanic for him and wouldn’t want to diminish it’s utility.
Gargos specials are unsafe on block(portal punch), doesn’t give him meter (minions), pushes him away on block (reckoning) and could possibly end his preassure (so stops his meter gain from block), or is a command grab where you have to choose between meter/damage/setups.
So, besides sadistic appetite, he has limited ways to get meter.
Also, considering his defense as the worst among the cast (or at least bottom 2), he needs his instinct to get a screen stop and react to his opponent. Eating minions for instinct is a very underplayed but powerful defense tool.
So this suggestion makes his already bad defense, worse, summoning less minions and having less instinct activations
Let’s not forget that when used as a Battery Ender, Lv1-4 all drain/provide the same amount of meter, which is less than half a bar. If I recall, PP also recently got a meter-gain nerf. So, it’s already a struggle to get the resources for Minions, before we factor having to spend bar on defense.
Yeah, I think he could stand to have his bad defense made worse. He might have weak defense, but his offense feels as though it’s very good from just about anywhere. I know they said he’s weaker at mid-range, but is he weak enough there to justify how good he is up close and at distance?
Maybe they could balance this (slightly) by giving Izzik three hits and Dretch four, so they’re a little harder to get rid of once they’re summoned? That might be too much, and I definitely don’t want to diminish the importance of summoning minions, but since he’s already so tough when he has both of them out there, I don’t think that making them slightly harder to get is the worst thing in the world. Now yeah, making them cost a full shadow meter would be too much, but something like this seems like a more moderate nerf IMO, but if you disagree, it’s cool.
[quote=“SonicDolphin117, post:6, topic:14647”]
This is only really annoying because of how brainless it is with minions. He just moves the camera too high for you to see where you are and stays up there while minions attack you offscreen and you can’t tell what side to block.[/quote]
That’s exactly my point! and I main the character lol. Sadira has a high jump but nothing like Gargos.
@Dayv0 About his minions though. I just think there could be a “medium” with the summons. I don’t know what that would be though. Yeah it gets ugly for him on defense but when the summons are out that pressure gets ridiculous. PP, minions, and command grabs oh my. Honestly I think solo minion is just as strong, because it still makes players cautious. Interupted combos, real good pressure, even a few double KO’s. Maybe reduce damage when summons are out? I also agree with @ZDhome suggestions. As a Gargos main I have to admit some his tools are too good.
I dunno, man. I think when it comes to PP>Minion>rinse>repeat, if folks are letting you get away with that, they need to step their game up. Until you’ve built 2 bar and can lock’em down, it’s less effective than it looks and crumbles to most forward-moving hitboxes (be it a fireball, windkick, whathaveyou). Patience and spatial awareness are Gargos’ greatest weaknesses - by this I mean, it’s not that he poses situations to which one has NO answer, but flusters you into not being able to apply your answer in time.
In my experience, being remotely effective with Gargos against anyone other than Sadira requires an immense amount of thought, both planning ahead and adjusting on the fly when things don’t go as planned (and they WILL NOT go as planned at least twice a match). It does feel like it sucks to be Sadira in this matchup, though.
Gargos be like: “I see your character, and raise you one j.HK,”
I hadn’t noticed that he can go full Marvel with the offscreen-assist via quad-jump. That’s kinda dumb, I will agree. But could that be fixed by buffing the camera pan, instead of nerfing Gargos’?
I’m no super high level player, but I think a lot of Gargos’ overwhelming power comes not from having solid (or even good) tools, but from player frustration and lack of labwork.
Oh no that’s not what I do, lol. I’m the type of Gargos player that will go face-to-face with the opponent via grabs and pp juggle setups. It’s just when I watch the majority other Gargos players that’s all I pretty much see.
That’s a pretty good idea what the camera pan,that might work.
I agree and I’m an absolute lab rat, to which I am learning has its pros and cons. Hehe.