This is wrong. It’s only -3. It cannot be punished by throws. Throws have five frame startup. It can be punished by some DP attacks. But the only one I know of that always reaches is Aria’s. But most characters don’t have a 3-frame DP so against the bulk of the cast he is completely safe after medium wind kick.
Admittedly he is negative on block so if he hits a normal or throw against the opponent’s buttons he will lose. But a lot of Jago players will DP here sometimes just to keep you nervous about hitting your buttons.
You’re right, he can DP after and catch a throw attempt. Most guys don’t do this on block because a blocked DP is way more punishable than a blocked med wind kick so throw usually works in this situation, but it is not guaranteed.
But the larger point stands that med Wind Kick is punishable while med laser sword is not.
I complained because it is another unnecessary nerf.
If you have trouble with j.HP just block it and hold jump. As soon as you leave block stun you will jump and beat EVERYTHING he does, because he is negative on everything.
This is how I beat every Kan-Ra on my way to Killer. To be honest, it was only 1. Never saw another Kan. Totally OP character. Nobody wants to have easy wins and pick him. sigh
I think Tusk will be fine. Better even. Being breakable means you can mistime it. Timing it properly let’s me condition you to break. Which lets me counter break.
Tusk wins off one counter break.
Even if you break it tosses me back into ideal pressure range. See where this is going?
It kills one chance breaks but opens up a deeper game.
But, since you are joining the nitpick squad here - tell me why it is that you jumped on the bandwagon to say anyone doing c.mk xx med wind kick is not playing Jago right. It’s because the move is negative and punishable, right?
Is it wrong that lots of people do this? Is it wrong that they get thrown a lot?
I don’t wanna comment on how big of an effect the change has, because i don’t have much experience with kan-ra, but imo you (and a lot of other people) confusing buffs/nerfs and fixes.
Buffs/Nerfs are intendend changes from the developers to make the character better/worse for the sake of balancing out the game.
Bugfixes are error’s that lead into UNINTENTIONAL game behavior. While fixing these bugs will affect the game in some way it will make characters worse/better.
So having kan-ras frame data changed to -3 is a bug fix, it was never intendet to have better frame data than that. You just got lucky to play it with better frame data because it was an accident. What you get now is what the developers had in mind from the start.
So calling this a “huge nerf” is pretty unreasonable for me. It was just a bug fix.
It makes me feel kinda sad that people who play competetive games (any genre) in 2016 still confusing bugfixes with buffs and nerfs.
Overall, this patch looks DELICIOUS.
Rash being normalized isn’t surprising at all.
Kan Ra continuing to get adjusted is a little unexpected though. If people are still having trouble against him, I don’t see anything changing that, short of scrapping his entire play style and rebuilding him. Shadow meter is your best friend when fighting Kan Ra. When you’re in block stun from one of his pressure strings, you can literally just mash out whatever your projectile invulnerable shadow move is and blow through the next swarm or command throw and put him into a combo. Plus every character in the game should be able to bully the heck out of him when he gets knocked down and has no meter himself.
Kan Ra is still good though. That shadow scorpion pit is stupid strong. More Kan Ras need to use it.
I actually enjoyed playing against Kan-Ra’s before Season 3 even though it was annoying with the zoning they did, it made me step up how I played with Jago. As I only started using Kan-Ra at the end of season 2 and throughout season 3 its hard for me to comment on these buffs and nerfs 1 thing for sure though is I haven’t played against a Kan-Ra player since season 3 (they have all disappeared or changed characters). I do think the damage he does should be increased with the swarm changes. I find you have to hit a player so many times to kill them with Kan-Ra.
I know it is a bug fix but they could have just let it be -1. It is bad enough. Now it is punishable by characters that were bad match ups even before.
How am i speaking down on you? My last statement was a general statement and not directly pointed at you, if that offended you i’m sorry dont want to be mean.
Why would the leave a bug in the game? The developers probably thought kan-ra didnt need that buff. Maybe the bring it back as a buff in 3.2 but they probabl want to see how he does now compared to the other characters. If IG thinks he really needs a buff he will get one.
Okay, don’t wanna get personal here neither. We are good.
Actually I like what you said. There has to be some thought behind all those changes. I wish IG was a little bit more transparent with all this kan-ra changes. “this was too strong”, 'he did too much damage for a character like that" and “people were complaining a lot” isn’t enough for me.
Those unbreakables had to be delt with that’s what I agree on. But everything else was just too much.
At least shadow spike is an awesome move and the changes to combo breakers are very good for him. Those are what keep me playing him.
I just don’t need even MORE nerfs or ‘bug fixes’. He is high risk, low reward and just not viable anymore. But still fun to play somehow
Yeah that’s a little weird. If you’re at the same frames as a non run cancelled boot why bother run canceling at all? Heck run canceling is worse than not run canceling since you can’t block.
I am very glad they made the flip out reaction speed universal. Many of my set ups with Kan Ra rely on consistent timing which is often ruined by floatier characters like Glacius.
Have you seen how most of the Kan Ra players have been reacting? Most of them agree almost unanimously that he is too weak right now. I have definitely been feeling the struggle, but maybe this will end up like Season 2 Kan Ra when he launched; everyone thought he was bad but overtime we learned how to use him and he shot up to #2 on the tier list.
Please don’t take it the wrong way, I’m asking an honest question here:
Why is everything else too much? I wanna understand your reasoning behind that. From what I’ve read on your other posts Kan-Ra is now very negative after a l.Swarm, the move most people do after a cr.MK, but is it that good of a tool that if Kan-Ra loses it he drops a full tier on the list?
Again, this is a serious question as I don’t play Kan-Ra. It seems very strange to me that a zoner character like him becomes so less powerful as you imply after losing a close range use of a tool.
IG’s reasoning behind the change seems clear to me, when the move was created on the first place they tested and balanced it to be -3 but the final build was released with it -1 so it’s clearly a bug that created a new tool they didn’t test or balance against. The fact it’s such a good tool to apply close range pressure kind of confirms this was unintended.
They could have just kept it and I believe they took this long to fix this bug because they where testing it in the open field. What I think happened is that they originally intended l.Swarm to be used medium to long range as a zoning tool but people where using it to apply close range pressure, something that shouldn’t be the focus of a character like Kan-Ra.
Well, again… don’t play Kan-Ra. What are your thoughts on why they should have kept the move’s frame data untouched?
I could not agree more on that statement, especially after seeing all these threads coming up the past few days/weeks (e.g. shago needs to be banned, tusk is op godtier, etc.)
and yeah having more insight on the balancing progress would be really nice to have, but its probably hard to do for IG and their limited ressources.
If Kan-Ra is viable or not i can’t really talk about that topic, because i have to limited knowledge for that. But if you still have fun playing him, i guess you should stick with him.
My whole point was people should check their mindsets how they read patchnotes and should see them in the grand scheme of things, rather than seeing them in a vacuum.
