Looking back, I’ve watched some Tool Assisted Gameplay of games like Super Punch Out (Snes), Real Bout Fatal Fury, Street Fighter EX Plus Alpha, etc,. I’m wondering if there will be a TAS videos of KI?
What exactly do you mean by Tool-Assisted Gameplay (TAS)? The game already has CAM (Combo-Assist Mode), if that’s kind of what you’re thinking of…
No not Combo Assist. Tool Assist. Like this for example.
Yes, I know it’s Skullomania.
I’m not going to stomach my way through a cruddy-looking 11+ min. video for something you could just explain to me, which BTW, the video barely seemed to do at all (well, the little bit of it that I actually watched, anyways).
I’m not too well on explaining certain stuff so bare with me.
Basically TAS is basically quickly scrolling through menus, bypassing loading times and like most speed-run videos, completing an entire game in 11 minutes or more.
I’m not expert on this sort of gameplay.
That’s the worst explanation ever, lol.
The gist of it is that you are trying to play the game as perfectly as possible by using slow motion and frame-by-frame tools, as well as other tools and hacks. Watch a TAS of a game you know how to play well and it should be very obvious. They are kind of peculiar in fighting games, but in most 3D adventure games it is very obvious that the player is playing perfectly as if they were a robot.
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Thought you meant this guy from Street Fighter with infinite combos and impossible punishes:
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Yes. That. One.
Just what’s been said, it’s using software tools to accomplish perfection a human player could not feasibly accomplish on their own. Usually the best Tool-Assisted runs don’t actually break any rules of the game, they simply leverage the power of the tools so-as to achieve frame perfect results for am entire run.
Applied KI imagine something like this:
A ‘bot’ or AI that monitored what was happening on the screen at all times, frame by frame, and using the data gathered made perfect decisions based on that data. So you throw a move and the AI, on the EXACT frame the move begins analyzes it, figures out what move you did and chooses a frame option based on its parameters. It could effectively beat you to the punch every time and block perfectly no matter the mixup (outside unlockables obviously). Then move to frame perfect combos and it could counter-break perfectly, etc.
Now in the case of the tool assisted run being vs. the AI, it would likely further be designed to take advantage of known weaknesses in the cpu AI, like the ability to Focus-lock Seth on the hardest difficulty of SFIV, or SFIV’s inability to block Blanka Balls, etc, while further circumventing anything not necessary by skipping loading screens (possible in some games) and menus.
The nature of fighting games makes tool assisted runs particularly difficult, at least perfect one but they are absolutely possible.
We had a thread about possible cheating and I outlined a simple overlay scenario for some basic in-game detection methods, while rudimentary, circumvent needing to fool with he game directly. My method uses pixel color samples taken from the monitor itself and compared against known values to track health and various meters. I actually built a tiny prototype after some googling… to give an idea how easy that was to do, I don’t know how to code AT ALL, but was able to put it together in just a couple hours. My color sampling doesn’t solve all issues and it certainly doesn’t address the AI and decision making sides required, but with thoughtfully application, simple pixel sampling can predict a LOT of what’s happening.
I wonder if it’s possible to analyze and compare audio files outside the game? Like grab the data right as it’s being kicked out of your soundcard/chip and analyze it, then compare it to various sounds from KI and use that as a further form of detection. We have blind players who play KI in much the same way, which proves that sound alone goes a long way.
NOTE:::::::: I am not advocating tool assisted KI, nor did I build my midget prototype with purpose or idea to use, I simply postulated in a other thread HOW to go about some rudimentary auto-combo breaker ‘tech’ because a couple people didn’t think it was possible to cheat at KI that way. After I put forward my brain ■■■■ I kinda wanted to prove wether I was right or not. In so far as detecting pixel color and comparing vs expected results and choosing a course of action based on those results. My bot currently changes a txt box to HIT or BLOCK based on wether the attack hit or was blocked. I am a haxor mastermind !!!
I never actually used CA outside once in training. What exactly does it do? Because I didn’t see a difference in the combos with i ton.
that’s pretty impressive that you made it that far, but CheatEngine is surely the way to go, as I mentioned in that same thread. That’ll give you access to all status changes. All it takes, really, is someone with motivation to do it. If that guy Dantarion who did it with Street Fighter felt like it he could drop a how-to for us any time he felt like it.
However, with the KI scene relying on so many online tournaments, a decent bot released into the wild would pose significant integrity problems.
However, those problems would vanish instantly if they do what even lazy mmo’s do and prevent KI from launching if they find programs like CheatEngine on your pc.
speaking of dantarion, he’s definitely at it for SF5…
Yeah Cheat Engine is definitely more than capable. I just wanted to demonstrate how easily it could be done… when a random guy with no coding experience outside some game development in GameMaker can not only make, but learn to make in the first place, a simple method and accompanying utility, the possibilities when ‘real’ minds take over are kinda terrifying.
I totally agree though. A capable bot released into the wild could cause some serious issues and I thoroughly hope we never have that problem.
I enjoyed watching Tool-Assisted play SFIV, it was funny, and outside competitive modes I really don’t care if someone’s cheating so long as they broadcast it… in doing so it just becomes (to me) a funny little diversion and it’s humorous to try to overcome the hack. Tool-Assisted did it right IMO when a) his name stated he was cheating. b) he made a room and let people come to him, not the other way around.
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you got me here salivating on the online dumps people have made into making fighting game bots… thinking about embracing the dark side of the force…
I didn’t realize the guy already dumped his old SF4 tools online… I’m going to do a little pm’ing over the next few days…
I saw a few of the bots in SF5. Bodied known players like they were amateurs. Kinda funny to watch. Like there weren’t even long/difficult combos. Just simple stuff although there were things like jab into H dp in the nuetral a few times. Oh and 100% techs all the time from throws. So you couldn’t ever mix it up with throws because it would always be teched.
yeah I prefer the approach of making a bot more human-like, adding in whatever mandatory reaction lag into the script, 4 frames or whatever it is. At least for online play.
Now, as for REVENGE against the AI… that’d be pretty fun to watch to bots go at each other’s throats
That reminds. Since the bots can read inputs…what happens when they start reading eachothers? I actually never thought of that till now.
wait… can’t we do that now? cpu vs cpu? lol I never tried that
We can
I don’t like where this is going at all. It sounds like it’s just 1 step away from being exploited for il-gotten gain (a.k.a cheaters/modders/glitchers/boosters - basically everything I stand against).
Besides, if you’re doing something like a speed-run, why would you want to use some sort of “tool” to help you? If anything that sounds like steroids in a professional sport (sorry for the drug reference, but it’s what I could think of on the spot). You should get it legit, by oh I dunno… EARNING IT.
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