Why is Vortex's strength completely ambiguous?

The only time it’s possible to tell the strength of his uppercut is the first hit during a grounded combo. Otherwise, it’s completely impossible to tell what strength it when timed right in juggles, especially the second hit. While it does add quite a bit of kv, the damage, juggle opportunity and corner carry this move provides is not compensated by its breakability at all. Why is Cinder’s trailblazer’s second hit tied to the first hit’s strength and not TJ’s vortex? Why are the multiple hits on Vortex not required to trigger during a juggle? I personally think this move should become much more easy to break than it is. What do you guys think?


I know what you mean, but I feel its mostly balanced by the rest of tjs juggles and recapture.

Might just be seeing things but there are subtle differences. Like how far he moves forward, if there is more then one hit, the speed of those hits. You can break the 2nd punch after looking at the first punch since you have a little bit of time to process it

I feel its a good reward for the TJ being able to time vortexs right.

No, you can’t, he can change the strength to anything he wants. It’s not tied to the first one.

How does he change it? Theres no extra input right?Depending on how he juggles, he can change how the 1st punch hits (heavy/medium can hit once) but I’m sure the 2nd punch is the same strength as the first always.

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I’m pretty sure he can change it by pressing a different button after the first hit, and if he presses nothing he just automatically does the same strength. I’ll need to check sometime though.

Please do

I’m away from home till Wednesday tho :confused:

TJ’s Vortex is always 2[separate punches] for a single input w/ a huge delay between the two. Both hits are always the same strength, it’s not like Powerline. You can feel out the variations in the delays (there is a longer delay as strength increases), and watch the distance he moves (he moves noticeably farther as strength increases).

I dunno, I’ve never felt particularly frustrated by Vortex.


Are you sure? I swear sometimes I see the first strength and try to break the second and I strength lockout.

I am 99.9% certain. The shadow of a doubt is cast only by the existence of this thread, and if it were very many other folks asking, that doubt wouldn’t even present itself.

The differences between them can be very subtle in the moment. I personally just never try to break Vortex - TJ’s are almost guaranteed to give up an easier break point afterward.

I’m not sure how I feel about making it more breakable… I guess maybe they could mess w/ the little cyclone around his fist? While I’m always leery of nerf-talks, I guess if it’s a problem worth changing I’d rather see them affect it’s breakability than damage or other properties, especially now that getting broken leaves a little damage on deck… but at the same time I kinda like his tricky early-hit-whiff-strength-fakes, they’re a neat stratagem to have in this game. Changing the little cyclone kills those.

EDIT: What Leo said.

Yup. He can never switch strengths between the two punches. For the first punch: light hits once, medium x2, heavy x3.

He can, however, do juggles where maybe only hit #3 of the heavy connects, making look like a light.


Leo and Morning are correct - vortex is always the same strength between the first and second hits. If you know the character well enough you can use how far he steps forward as your break indication. I think it’s fine as is. A skilled TJ can work hard to make the attack more ambiguous, but there’s always a tell if you know what you’re looking for.

Yeah I’m gonna have to test this myself when I get back. If you guys are right, I feel so dumb for trying to guess strengths during sets.

I think anything a ssimple as making the first glow a certain color could help with dictating L, M, and H’s But then again I don’t see much saying what TJ’s vortex is suppose to be like anyhow.

Other people can disagree understandably but hey you can counter break that if it seems obvious.

This would be going way overboard nerfing a move that doesn’t even need to be nerfed.

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it was just a silly suggestion anyway : U

besides I don’t run into too many TJs but I do admit he is one of the hardest characters to break. Than again he wouldbn’t be called Combo if he didn’t do the best with combos.

On that note: Perhaps maybe you can tell us the difference between all his vortexes and it will give people who have problems with T.J an idea or two on how to break him.

Already described in thread.

I have had this problem as well. If TJ times his punch early, he can make it so not all of the hits connect. This can make the strengths harder to determine. For example, if TJ hits the 3rd and 4th hit of heavy vortex without connecting the 1st and 2nd hits, it resembles the light version. I don’t know of any way around this.


@Crainiak24 @SonicDolphin117 There are two things you can do to go about handling Vortex -

1.) Hit the lab and just get super familiar w/ their timings, or play a bit of TJ if that’s more your learning style. Either way, build familiarity w/ the difference in delay between blows, and likewise the distance that he slides in between them, so you don’t get fooled by the whiffs.
2.) This the the bit of advice I feel like no one will agree with, but I honestly prefer it to the former, and it works for me on the (admittedly rare) occasions I’ve fought TJ’s - don’t break Vortex. Just let him have the uppercut - he’s gotta give you at least one, probably more, break point(s) and they won’t be nearly as tricky as that uppercut. He wants you to lockout on the uppercut. Don’t lockout on the uppercut.