Long combos that require low execution and simple ways to get out…with low risk, high reward , high priority special moves blade dash blade dash blade dash no need to walk or do normals because ur special mite have the same frame data as ur normals and have better priority lol… Autos like bnbs now which gets boring to look at and perform. My favourite game ki what happened to it. . I wish I could put in the game but ever since evolution seeing the game played at the highest level in 2016 I got turned away by how unimpressive the tourney was.
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You mean how if you lockout, then you get punished with a lot of damage? Or how you can counter break and punish them for a lot of damage. Or you can reset and punish them for a lot of damage?
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I meant special moves that are high priority that beat other moves but not punishable when I block it like blade dash being -2 uncharged… Like why isn’t punishable fulgore can charge it to make it safe anyways
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Bro I’ll think about what you just said. While the meta of KI has changed, I don’t think you are illustrating a clear enough point for me to address this? Are you trying to say that like naruto fighting games, there’s no consequence for getting hit or hitting someone? Combo breaking and substitution jutsu work in different ways my man. One Cost resources and the other doesn’t. While substitution can bail you out of trouble, you can punish them for doing that just like any other fighting game. KI is definitely not a loser risk high reward game. The combo system ensures that. You can break almost anything in KI. It’s a constant guess game between what to break and when to break. It’s much more complex then substitution jutsu.
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I agree with this lol fulgore makes me scratch my head a lot.
Simple ways to get out lol. You do realize you can jump orver blade dash now for a free punish? Blade dash does not have the same frame data as normals. Autos are like bnbs? Then don’t do them if you don’t have to.
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This is a fallacy. Bread and butter combos are the same systematic combos used because they’re the most optimal. Auto doubles are two hit normals that are cancelled from a special move. They are not systematic because you have to vary the strength of them inside of the combo system in order to not get broken. The animation each feel and sound different.
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-2 is very punishable if you buffer the input. heck I punish +2 hits some time because people can’t input the follow up fast enough. a couple times I’ve even been punished with a DP after doing a full charged blade dash because I tried to follow with eye laser and didn’t buffer it soon enough
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You can always punish block strings with shadow counters since they were buffed in season 3
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Even if it’s high priority, blade dash does not have the largest damage box so you can sweep Fulgore out of it with some characters. Fun fact: You can also throw Jago out of his wind kick just before it touches you! It’s hard to do but I’m good at it and people think I’m hacking XD
It’s hard to respond seriously to this but here you go: KI has strong specials for use in neutral and pressure because that’s the game. It would be way worse if you didn’t have these strong neutral options, you’d have to fight much harder to get in which would throw the breaker game out of balance. If blade dash is giving you trouble, maybe you should learn to play the neutral game?
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TLDR
The universal combat/combo system is the answer. You need to have super strong offensive tools when your opponent can break anything you do after you win the neutral. If it weren’t this way then defense would be too strong making matches time out constantly. On the flip side defense is super strong in KI as well, you have shadow counters, breakers, and easy access to shadow meter, it builds fast.
The entire game and character archetypes are balanced around the combo system, how can people not see this?
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choose one of 3 options and mix it up. just doing autos is a actual style to playing the game and it works. I really could never understand trade offs in ki they seem to be always be the opposite of what i want.
E.g autos are easy to do, high damage and easy to break excluding light autos and some character specific autos , but manuals hard to do , limited and low damage and not too hard to break because of its limits.
The mental strain of performing manuals over autos is too much because I could be thinking about more important issues than " to time this link" . Taking away execution from fighting game will just leave a button masher where we have the world of time to think . I don’t see crowds getting hype for autos unless it is done within a lockout. A Tournament match where 2 players just autoing an combo breaking is very boring and from a spectators point of view lacks that skill and thought that we like to see . Number 1 reason for someone watching a sport is that they want to see some do what they can’t do ,not something that anyone can do which leaves ki and naruto in the same boat. After the game has been out for so long I thought matches would look better people will stop doing so much easy stuff and do more advance pro stuff but nope we got teleport punch autos which puts all manuals to shame . Autos have more advantages and manuals have more disadvantages . Autos are better than manuals. I guess is a new school for a new crowd where anyone can play a fighting game without putting in the hours to learn combos.
And you complain about combos being too easy. Wtf. You don’t have to worry about about the opponents breaking on reaction for manuals. That is the point. Also Naruto is a very good game…lel.
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Jump u say
Lol that sounds like hacking
Nope.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you are just wrong. KI has actually become more reliant on execution as it has evolved from S1-S3 so you’re whole “what has become of KI,” shctick is demonstrably untrue. The tournaments are hype to watch because spectators would rather watch flashy special moves than two characters standing in mid range bopping back and forth throwing out low jabs until one accidentally hits and then performing a robotic optimal combo movie while the other player takes a sip of coffee. Regardless of the fact that the 25 top competitors consider a random jab to be the “honest” pinnacle of fighting game prowess. In KI you are constantly watching to see if the offensive player can bait a lockout or a counter breaker, and watching to see if the defensive player can escape pressure or break a combo. The game is demonstrably MORE taxing mentally to play than other games and that mental effort translates directly to tension for spectators. When the game first came out the first version of this forum was filled with people complaining that the game was TOO tense to play and they were getting anxiety attacks trying to cope with rank.
This is the only thing you said that is half true. KI is deliberately and refreshingly not a game that gates it’s interesting gameplay behind ridiculous execution barriers. If you think that what makes a high level player good is the ability to sit in practice mode and try to perform the same one frame link combo until it is in grained, then (besides being wrong) this isn’t the game for you and it never has been. If you don’t see the difference between this game and Naruto then I don’t think you have any understanding of what makes high level play actually interesting or entertaining to watch.
And finally, you are about the millionth person to make the ridiculous claim that “anyone can play this button mashing game.” KI’s competitive players put in huge hours to develop their high level skills. And we see these skilled players consistently doing well. We don’t see random top 8s because the game is a button masher. If the game is so simple and easy, put in a weekend of practice and then come back here when you win Evo. Otherwise, with all due respect, you just make yourself sound like an idiot.
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The difference between Naruto and KI is that Naruto actually takes skill Kappa.
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No. The only thing that can punish -2 is Raam’s Shadow Dominance. -2 is safe otherwise.
Then it’s not a punish. The definition of punishing is hitting an opponent while they are in Recovery frames. Since they have been out of recovery frames for 2 frames that is not a punish.
Everything else you said is OK.
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Let me make a comparison between KI and the Naruto games. My knowledge on the Naruto games is limited since I haven’t played the more recent ones but I think I know enough.
Naruto
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Has a substitution gauge that allows you to escape juggles but can be easily be punished if anticipated properly with little punishment if anticipated wrong. This substitution gauge runs out and leaves you stuck in a long juggle which will hurt you.
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Assists can help keep your opponent at a distance or used as a means to keep them off of you. They pretty much recharge and are ready for use whenever.
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Chakra Dashing goes straight through projectiles, straight to your opponent and doesn’t require too much Chakra which you can recharge in a matter of seconds.
Killer Instinct
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The Combo Breaker system allows you to break any point of the combo so long as you’re not locked out. This can be countered with a with a Counter Breaker which can extend a combo significantly but leaves you in a very punishable state if guessed wrong.
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DPs and Shadow Counters can be used to get opponents off of you and make them respect your space. If avoided, you’re most likely left in a punishable state in which they can go back to landing stuff on you again. And in the case of Shadow Counters, you lose a Shadow stock for attempting it and failing.
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Characters have moves that move them forward, teleports, fast dashes, and Shadow moves that go through projectiles. Not all characters have these things, some are better than others, and not all of them work the same but they mostly share the same purposes.
I don’t know about you, but I’d say that the risk in KI is much higher in comparison to Naruto.
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list of some moves that can punish a move that is -2, not even counting shadow moves
tiger fury
eclipse
samamish
cyber uppercut
sacrifice
fireflash
whateverAria’sDPiscalled
das boot
whateverEyedolsWarriorDPiscalled
There are more if you count moves with invulnerable start-ups, but they can be blocked.
So it’s a drop punish then? You sure like to nit-pic. The point is it works.
Tiger Fury is 3 startup frames so it can’t punish -2
Eclipse has 4 startup frames minimum
Sammamish has 4 minimum
Cyber Uppercut (actually called Plasma Slice) has 3 startup frames
Sacrifice I’m not sure
Fireflash is 9 frames
Aria’s DP is 3 frames
Boot is 4 I think
Eyedol’s is higher than 3
The in-game attack data is wrong on a lot of things.
Edit: tinyurl.com/KIFrameData Check out my frame data sheet.