Your are seeing my side but you are down playing the others claim that I am personally calling for nerfs. I never said that.
Its frustrating when ppl direct everything towards me but ignore the other posts and comments that are of the same value. And whats more frustrating is when ppl try to tell me maybe Im doing something wrong because my opinion is invalid.
Wasnât. Was just mentioning a tool that not many characters have access to.
1 Like
Ok good deal. I think we can all move on now and agree to disagree.
Watch Glacius get a damage buff next patch LOL
Sure, clearly the frustration with Glaciusâs damage comes from some people who donât think Glacius has many weaknesses in neutral (âI finally catch him and he hits me once and I dieâ). But to me, despite Miraâs health mechanic being an obvious downside on paper, she is just as slippery to hit as Glacius (especially with mist on wakeup), just as jumpy/active in neutral as him, and has just as annoying a projectile as him.
The main difference, probably, is that Mira is a bit more fragile than Glacius and probably a bit harder to play, but like⊠I dunno. Mira actually ends you with one combo, while Glaciusâs damage is just âmerely above averageâ and tied with about 10 other characters. And if a person didnât complain about Glaciusâs damage, theyâd be able to easily find a replacement elsewhere. Thatâs all Iâm saying; there is a misconception that Glacius does more damage than other characters, and itâs not true.
If people want to change the conversation to âGlacius does too much damage for his toolsetâ, then that is a better statement to discuss (which I also donât think is true, but at least itâs a starting point that makes sense and itâs easier to discuss the finer points of Glacius when framed in that way). But this current conversation seems to be just simply about the raw damage number.
2 Likes
I agree Mira hits harder, but for some reason I personally dont have as much trouble against Mira in that respect. Mira very slippery though.
Disregarding character archetypes for a moment (to prevent from arguing their intended role as a character), this statement reminded me that Thunder getâs a free setup with two stocks of meter and does only 2% less than Glacius does. Not to say that he shouldnât hit hard and get a setup, but it puts Glaciusâs damage into perspective a bit, I think.
3 Likes
Yeah, I agree itâs not just Glay, but anyone with a really fast mashable shadow linker that can turn late lockouts non-counterbreak into serious damage. However, Glayâs ex shoulder charge is the fastest, so doing two ex shoulders with his damage ender may yield the most damage in the shortest amount of time off of the basic 3-second lockout. I think Mira might be the only one who can tag on more in the 3 second lockout. However, Riptor and Wulf are definitely right up there with Glayâs 3-second lockout damage.
Iâll also say, I think Glay gets picked on more bc thatâs prolly his best use of 2 meters in a lockout, so youâre going to see that almost always in that situation whereas other characters might choose different options with their meter on lockout.
Equally damaging as far as early lockout combos sure. But with late lockout without a counterbreaker to reset the KV, not so sure about 10 characters, I havent fully tested it, but Iâm thinking only characters with decently "damaging mashable shadow linkers, or those that can put a shadow linker and a shadow damage ender. In the end, Iâm gonna assume we might only be talking like 10-15% differences bw the most damaging characters in a late lockout vs but that could be significant enough to some players to feel like âit isnât fairâ. I think Glay is fine though.
Well, there are quite a few characters with damaging mashable shadow linkers (Glacius, Thunder, Wulf, Kim, Spinal, etc), so that list is maybe longer than you think. But most importantly is the fact that you donât need to do 2 shadow linkers to get huge damage. Kim, for example, will turn any late lockout into huge damage because shadow dragon kick hurts so, so bad at level 4, and shadow dragon dance is a fast shadow linker which will bump any level 3 combo to level 4; I wouldnât be surprised if she hurts strictly more than Glacius in late lockout situations. Spinalâs shadow soul sword is a top 3 damaging shadow linker in the game, and shadow skeleport is a top 3 shadow cashout in the game.
Aganos can do things involving shadow rocks and shadow ruin that donât even need a break window! And shadow pulverize hurts a heck of a lot and is easy to confirm in late lockout situations after one auto-double. Wulf, a so-called âlow damage characterâ in S3, has shadow leaping slash which is exactly the same speed as Glaciusâs cold shoulder and does exactly the same damage (and his damage ender does the same as Glaciusâs damage ender too).
The list of characters that can put on serious hurt in >80 KV lockout situations is really big in KI. Even basic characters I didnât list here, like Jago, can see a lockout, finish their linker (eg), do a heavy auto-double for ~8 KV bringing the total to around 100, do shadow laser sword (easily fits inside lockout), and cash out for around 50%. People for some reason seem to get really triggered by the Glacius situation in particular, without recognizing all the other nearly identical things other characters can do.
2 Likes
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Before anyone responds with âBut Glacius is a zoner he doesnât deserve it,â have fun trying to Glacius zone against someone like Nicky. You will wish you had better mobility and mixups instead lol
4 Likes
First of all, donât worry about it. Weâre just having a chat. You post and respond when people reply to you. Thatâs why people are talking to you and not @Tonyathome. I donât think anyone is holding you solely responsible for the idea of reducing Glaciusâs damage. And donât think just cause we donât agree means Iâm upset. If we were talking face to face it would be easier, but thatâs the Internet. Everything looks angry even when itâs not. So for the record - itâs all good. Weâre just shooting the â â â â here.
Having said that I donât know how you can really say âGlacius does too much damageâ is not calling for nerfs. Youâre presenting a problem with an in-built solution - reduce Glaciusâs damage.
Anyway I wonât belabor it, other than to point out that Glaciusâs damage has always been high and that was never the biggest complaint about him (âhe has an unblockable!!?!â). The reason for the switch is his h.PuddlePunch is now a true invincible reversal. He used to have to hold onto some meter to escape pressure with shadow PP. Now he can spend it all on damage without much reservation. The best exception being to hold a shadow shatter to combat better zoners (Omen being one, incidentally). Itâs funny, @Zcythe mentions above that he likes to hold onto a bar in reserve and I can remember in the team tournament thinking over and over âcâmon man, spend that second meter after lockout!â I wouldnât say itâs âdegenerateâ but itâs hard to say that Glacius is making many difficult decisions about use of meter. Incidentally, I very rarely use anything other than damage ended and so do many intermediate Glacius players. The really good players will often choose to forego the damage and put you in the corner, which I think tells you something but thatâs another topic entirely.
Anyhow, that the reason I see for the sudden focus on Glaciusâs damage. I think lowering his damage a reasonable level (tricky to define) would actually be less impactful than people think. I think in order to address what is really bugging people you would have to wreck his damage potential, which seems like the wrong way to go to me. More indirect would be taking away his meterless invincible reversal. This would return some 4-6 matchups that have been 5-5 (in my complete amateur opinion), but itâs more interesting and less destructive psychologically than just lowering his damage.
4 Likes
This makes a lot of sense when you think about it. ( Not that IM asking for anything to happenâŠIM just shooting the sheet LOL)
1 Like
At this point, I donât feel the game needs dramatic changes(like, eliminate invul from X move, remove armor from Y, rework this instinctâŠ), and I feel that what could be addressed are degenerative strategies like:
-A character always uses the same ender because it outclasses his other enders
-A character with designed weakness makes them irrelevant due a super powerful advantage in other area
-Etc, etcâŠ
In that matter, I like what they did with Jago 2 patches ago(m windkick being unsafe gave some bad MUs to a character who basically didnât have bad MUs, or they were minimal), or the changes Jagoâs and Fulgoreâs c. MK(if MK has the range, best startup, and frame advantage, why use their other normals on that range? Some of them would never be useful compared to this).
Considering this, there is not much things I would change in general, but I would change nothing from Glacius in particular.
I feel he is in a good spot. He has definetively good strenghts, and he has some glaring weakness, which overall makes the character balanced enough.
The only issue with Glacius is that people usually donât respect him, and for any reason, this has been happening for years. People lets him go with murder, allowing him to go away with stuff that he should be punished for.
When we apeak about characters, we consider mobility, defense, damage, meter gain, offense, mixups⊠but I feel a factor is overlooked: the frustration factor
Some character does frustrate more than others when fighting them. Glacius, Gargos, Rash, Thunder⊠just some examples. Even when these characters are weaker than others, they get the hate because they are frustrating to fight. Do you remember the amount of frustration Shago got? Do you remember the people asking for anihilation to be nerfed to the ground?
People saw that it wasnât that good(with time), and now we donât see that Shago hate. Why? Because the focus is in other characters who fill that spot.
IMO, the opposition against Glacius exists because he is frustrating to play against, and people donât know what to do to stop him. His damage is irrelevant, is just that some people fail to see what is the real problem
Not picking anybody in particular, just my personal feeling about what people see as a problem
2 Likes
Omen counters Mira. Glacius has better options against him than most.
1 Like
Yeah Mira and Omen are a lot alike in many waysâŠfrom shadow form, to random like bats, air dash, slide, shadow slide, fwd HP type normal, ect⊠I really like Mira and I need to play with her more often but I just been on a Kilgore kick the last few weeks. Maybe Ill give her another go soon. I have her to 50 but its been a while since I truly put some work in with her.
Not trying to muddle the message, because I agree with the spirit of what youâre saying, buuuuutâŠ
Top damage shadow linkers in KI:
Eyedol instinct shadow club: 11.66%
Aganos shadow pulverize: 11.33%
Sadira JC shadow widowâs bite: 10.5%
Cinder shadow inferno: 10%
Spinal shadow soul sword: 9.33%
However, if you take out the instinct-only moves, what youâre saying is correct, and in terms of practical use itâs definitely stronger than pulverize and inferno.
Notably, 9.33% (or 33.6 damage) is a number that comes up a few times among the season 1 castâsoul sword, laser sword, and flick flack all do the same amount of damage, and I believe before its nerf glacius shadow cold shoulder was also 9.33%. It would be interesting to get my hands on a copy of S1 KI to see if fulgoreâs eye laser was also in this club before his S2 nerfâit wouldnât line up with the 10-15% number they gave for his damage nerf, though. Point is, out of the characters who still have this damage number, spinalâs soul sword is (according to the guide on your site) the fastest.
1 Like
Except VladKravich who is actually a crazy person.
3 Likes
Beautifull story on there, I wish you talks like that before they nerfed Badly till death some characters begin season 3 I think everyone should be happy, now its easy to talk like that , when some characters are dying .
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh, you are being serious? I will laugh harder
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Some serious hyperbole here.
I use Gargos. He was nerfed pretty hard since release. I donât care, because he is still fun and viable. Surprise! Like everyone in this game!
You can continue with your self up made rules about what a character should have, but you are wrong. Game is as balanced as ever was. Some chars are weaker than when they launched, but the difference between top and bottom chars is minimal compared to older builds of the game. You just isolate âthis chars are worse, hence they have to be badâ, and thats false
I recomend you to look things with more perspective. I really want to take your opinions seriously, but with your attitude is super hard to.
Prfff, some chars dying, hahahahahaha
4 Likes
I donât need it cause I donât struggle actually in this game, when I lost thatâs because ive been bad thatâs on me and only me to get better with my approach⊠So you wil know im all positive in my perspective with my main I donât care any characters in this game cause they are for most of them like 5-5 with my actual main and my actuals knowledge on this character,
So if you though I told this because of my old life you are total wrong! SMH! 
you does not have to lomfao.
I dont have to go to your âold lifeâ
This is false
This is false, they have to earn they damage with resources or risking being broken. There is no âfree damageâ.
Lots of chars can punish it, and there is no real risk just blocking cold shoulder spam until you can break in via resources/Glacius doing other stuff
I could look for more, but all this is from this thread, less than a week old
Some stuff you are proclaiming is just not true. There are tons of evidence to challenge your ideas. But you only state opinions, not facts.
Give me a video showing how Glacius cant be punished. Give me evidence, not opinions, and we may discuss and maybe you can even convince me!
Iâm open to civil and thoughtful discussion. Not at debating unproved opinions
I know you can gothei
I have faith in you
3 Likes