What justifies his damage output?

[FallofSeraphs76]

No need for you to reply with faces… I asked Dayvo to list them…not you

[Dayv0]

@SonicDolphin117

-Character size
-Mediocre pressure game w/out hails
-Gets outzoned by most other zoners
-Risky zoning tools, often leaves himself open (hail, shatter)
-Poor walk speed
-Dash? No.
-Floaty and vulnerable jump

He is talker than average, so he gets hit sooner by some stuff, giving him less time to react.

Without hails, his lack of overhead makes crouch block by default the best choice. Shatter is reactable, and to commit throw he has to take risks, since his close normals are below average

Shago, Aganos, Kilgore… all of them have good options against his zoning, eventually shutting down Glacius zoning

Hail and shatter are very weak to shadow punishes like forward advancing moves or fast instant projectiles like Kan-Ra sand or Eyedol lighting

His walkspeed makes him hard to win normal wars, since most characters can walk in or out they confort zone more easily than him

His dash is very bad, so he has to commit into puddle punch, which is unsafe, or block, making him weak to good OS, armor, and corner pressure

His jump is the slowest of the game, lacks changing trajectory moves, and his opponents can situationaly recover sooner than him if they get hit early by Glacius j. Attacks. He stays a lot in the air, making him weak to recaptures .

I could elaborate more, but Sonic’ list is pretty accurate, and shows some weakness that (and should) be exploited against him

[BigBadAndy]

I disagree about Glacius’s damage being a problem, but I’m not sure that listing side by side his strengths and weaknesses is a great measure. Not every strength is equal to every weakness.

Glacius is weak to pressure despite his invincible DP. His set ups - both shatter and hail, require good spacing and game sense because both moves are punishable. Glacius is very vulnerable while setting up these tools which are not that hard to avoid.

One of his underrated weaknesses is how hard it is for him to get in on a character running away from him. His lack of a functional dash is also underrated as a weakness. He’s terribly immobile which is why you see so many jumping glacius players.

If there is any complaint about Glacius that I can understand it’s that his invincible meterless reversal shores up his worst weakness - pressure. But it is the easiest reversal in the game to cross up or neutral jump because it doesn’t rise very high and he has significant recovery. The other thing that is in play is the fact that Glacius meter choices are pretty degenerate in my mind. If you have shadow you want to use it for shadow cold shoulder on lockout. Nothing else is good value.

But the idea that he’s OP or his damage is a problem in KI is not correct in my opinion.

Not to be like this, but in the Omen matchup, Omen has better zoning with his fireballs and a nearly full screen slide that opens a combo and can catch Glacius on reaction to either shatter or hail. I’m not suggesting it’s a bad matchup, but my point is everycharavter in KI has dirty offense. Glacius’s damage is not off scale.

[SonicDolphin117]

@BigBadAndy

If you have shadow you want to use it for shadow cold shoulder on lockout. Nothing else is good value.

Depends on the matchup. When playing against other zoners he wants to use shadow shatter more often.

[G1GlaciusPrime]

@BigBadAndy

One of his underrated weaknesses is how hard it is for him to get in on a character running away from him. His lack of a functional dash is also underrated as a weakness.

I have been seeing so many people lately do this, especially when Glacius is in instinct. It’s really frustrating because it slows down the gameplay (and fun) considerably.

[hotshotnumba1]

@SonicDolphin117

-Character size

Not much of a problem.

@SonicDolphin117

-Mediocre pressure game w/out hails

Glacius doesn’t work on pressure all the time.

@SonicDolphin117

-Gets outzoned by most other zoners

That’s only a small percentage of the cast.

@SonicDolphin117

-Risky zoning tools, often leaves himself open (hail, shatter)

Hail has him covered though.

@SonicDolphin117

-Poor walk speed

His long range attacks make up for this “weakness”.

@SonicDolphin117

-Dash? No.

Not the best but still a dash regardless.

@SonicDolphin117

-Floaty and vulnerable jump

Again, his long range attacks got him covered.

Now as a sabrewulf main, I agree that glay’s damage should be reduced but not by a lot only normalized. Wulf already has trouble getting close to glacius and zoning him out is a death sentence with that damage.

[hotshotnumba1]

@ZDhome

Turn his “shadow cold shoulder” from a damage move into a CARRY move, and I think it will help emphasize screen control instead of emphasizing 60% lockout damage.

(Cut the damage on it down, but increase the CARRY distance by 200 - 300%)

This could work.

[SonicDolphin117]

1. Disagree, it makes dealing with cross-up heavy characters extremely annoying and he needs to use meter to somewhat reliably get them off.

2. In a game like KI, close range offense is where a majority of a match takes place, with a few exempt characters (Kilgore specifically). In addition, against characters who zone better than him, Glacius HAS to get in close to win, and because his close range offense without a setup isn’t the best…you should get the idea.

3. Shadow Jago, Fulgore, Kan-Ra, Omen, Aganos, Cinder, Aria, Gargos, Eyedol, Kilgore. All these characters can generally avoid Glacius’ zoning and return their own, enough to make Glacius want/need to get in close. 36% of the cast.

4. Not if he gets punished for summoning it in neutral.

5. Only for as long as he can predict his opponent’s movements and keep them out of their effective normal range. Once his opponent is at a comfortable range, his options are much weaker. That’s why you see so many Glacius players jump back when someone gets close.

6. I mean, it’s good for certain setups, and the distance it covers is good. It’s not as bad as Aganos’ or Hisako’s (back dash in her case). But it’s still extremely situational, if anything.

7. If we’re talking jump lances, they are risky to use. If he does them early in his jump and they are blocked, the opponent can potentially punish. If he does them as he’s landing, the opponent can anti-air his lance. Not to mention this jump combined with his dash makes dealing with throws really bad for him; he either does a reversal, techs or gets no punish. Exploit that.

[G0tei13Izaragi]

@VladKravich

One of my mains is glacius so this might sound crazy but does anyone else think his damage output is a little too high? One combo can almost remove an entire life bar. I almost don’t want to use him because it feels like I’m cheating, someone online even called me a glacius damage noob (or something to that extend) for using him.

i aggree tottally, hes only a free damager character, i abuse him myself too for easy quick win he was my gargos killer till i discovered aria ( cause no much fun with glacius just free damage after a lockout), i dont see what could justifies his damages, better for him to get better zonning moves and be a lil bit faster then give him the sadira s3 output damages i think glacius wil be so fine, thats just my opinion tho

[Infilament]

Glacius damage is weaker than in S2.

Glacius is one of the few (perhaps the only?) S1 character that has never really had an uncontested spot in top 5 in this game. So I really don’t understand the complaints with him. He is probably as strong now as he’s ever been, maybe itching around the bottom of top 5 but there are tons of good counters to him and people let Glacius get away with a LOT.

I think more characters should do higher damage in this game, not Glacius doing less. And it’s not even like he’s in the top 3 most damaging characters in this game or anything. He has decent lockout conversions with meter, but so do lots of characters. His main source of zoning damage (hail) does very little, and he is decidedly average in the combo game when he doesn’t spend meter.

[IAmCarnitas]

I’ve been saying this for years now -_- I’m glad I’m not the only one who points this out

[LetalisVenator]

@hotshotnumba1

-Character size

Not much of a problem.

It’s a bigger problem than you think. It makes landing cross ups easier on him and things hit him sooner. Then in the mu with aganos his large size leads to him being unable to duck st.hp so aganos can kind of abuse him with a half screen stagger.you’re a wulf player so it might not seem like a big weakness to you. But in other mus it is. Imagine omen being right on top of glacius. It’s cross up city.

[LetalisVenator]

For a long time glacius was my most hated character in the game. I hated the thought of having to go through an obstacle course to get to him only to get hit by something and lose 60%. Now however I don’t really mind the character. He has weaknesses that ppl don’t exploit. Myself included up until recently. A lot of characters can punish him for even putting up just one hail such as aganos can use light or medium ruin on reaction and we saw when yung rate beat waterhorses at cb as well. Is he annoying?yes. He’s part zomer so that comes with the territory. That’s one other thing that people dont really get. Glacius is only part zoner. And he lacks the mobility A lot of the other good zoners have such as aria fulgore omen kan ra cinder etc. So even though they might nerf his damage slightly he’ll probably still end up hitting kind of hard. Which in some cases he’ll need to. If he didn’t have that damage some of his mus would get much much worse.

[CVERIMZ]

I find this thread highly amusing to read

[FallofSeraphs76]

@Infilament

I think more characters should do higher damage in this game, not Glacius doing less.

Now this I can get behind! No need nor Glacius mains to get upset. We can discuss what we as Glacius opponents see because we see it from a different perspective. Obviously if you use Glacius you are not going to agree becasue why would you want your character to be weaker?

I think @hotshotnumba1 explained it best above as to how it looks from the other side.

[WebNRagnarok]

I do agree with you there. One of the problems I’ve had with Glay is the fact that as a Sadira main, I can open him up a dozen times, and as it stands, I can do okay damage, but seems like it takes forever for me to take a life bar. Glay on the other hand, with meter, can nearly take one life bar because of one mistake.

So it is my own knee jerk reaction in respect to wanting to nerf his damage, HOWEVER, if Sadira had a slight damage buff, it WOULD at the end of the day even things out.

It was never Glay’s shenanigans that got under my skin, but just how disproportionate the damage “felt”.

[ItzTymeToDul]

I don’t think glacius hits especially hard. I just think he can stab shadow moves really quickly on lock out.

[G1GlaciusPrime]

Personally I feel like if Glacius was as OP as everyone says he is, I’d have a pro star by now.

[R1stormrider]

really strong glacius players make it really challenging to get in. if hes got hail up and hes got you for his set ups have fun. the hails save him during the combo you get to land on him, gets pretty damn annoying. some just also love to abuse that cold shoulder of his since it bounces him back far away enough to make it difficult to go for a punish. to fight glacius, i just dont let him play. once you do, you’re pretty much fucked if you get locked out because here comes a 60% damage combo.

[LetalisVenator]

Sadira’s damage isn’t why she’s the worst character in the game. She’s over all just too easy to shut down. And unfortunately I don’t think that’ll change without a gameplay rework. Sadira was good because she was broken with her instinct in s1 and s2. She likely would’ve always been lower tier without that nonsense. At least in s2 any way. Even with a slight damage buff her issues won’t be any better or worse. Characters like cinder rash gargos raam etc will still shut her down free.