So, the ways that Aganos gets chunks are pretty well known at this point, but I’ll state the common ways bellow:
Use back HP (fortify chunk) after…
-a forward throw
-a sweep from crouching HK
-a thrown peacemaker
-after launching a chunk
-durring shadow payload assault
Or, the most common way of all… The chunk ender.
Also, most Aganos players (not all of theme obviously) will only put walls up…
-during shadow payload assault
-or (much more commonly) immediately after a chunk ender.
The bit about walls is especially troubling because I think it’s odd that one of the most unique mechanics in any fighting game character has now become fairly predictable. Therefore, I have been thinking of some new buffs (and nerfs) for our big mean broccoli man. Nerfs:
-Chunk ender has a shorter knockdown, preventing the safe placement of a wall upon ending the combo with chunks. This would make it so the ender that already gives you chunks wont automatically give you a guaranteed wall as well.
-Walls and peacemaker could do less damage based on their durrability. This would mean that if you knock someone through a wall that, say, is on its last hit point, it could do reduced damage (maybe 65-70%) and more so depending on how many hit points there are left.
now for the crazy part Buffs:
-Aganos can now cancel any normal on hit or block (except crouching HK) into placing a wall, back HP (fortify chunk) or the other command moves listed later. Of all of the buffs, this one is probably the least likely to happen as it seems really, really good.
-The Pulverize ender has a longer hard knockdown (enough time to safely place a wall)
-If Aganos is holding a peacemaker, he can convert it into a wall (back or neutral PPP). This new wall would have one less hit point than that of that peacemaker at the time of placement. If The peacemaker has only one hit point left, it will trigger Aganos’s empty chunk move (The animation when he tries to place a wall or launch a chunk but has no chunks left).
-New command move (down PPP) Summons two wall at the cost of two chunks (one wall behind Aganos, and one behind his opponent).
At the cost of Two chunks, Aganos can instantly create a peacemaker (hold PPP) . This peacemaker would also spawn with only 2 hit points instead of the normal 3.
-Trying to place a wall behind the opponent when there is already a wall there will now move the wall. The wall can move either forwards or backwards about 1 jumps distace. However, weather or not the wall moves forward or backwards is completely random, so it could help or hurt Aganos depending on the situation. The wall moving forward could help him close the distance, while a wall moving backwards could allow him to set more walls behind his opponent.
I know these ideas are crazy and It probably would not be possible to implement them all, but I think they would do some real good in giving players new creative ways to manipulate the stage and the circumstances with our favorite “low-tier hero”.
chunk ender knockdown is already pretty unsafe. By the time you get the wall up, most characters can start hitting you to remove any remaining chunks.
a giant stone bat and wall, are still both a gaint stone bat and wall, respectively. They still hurt, even if you put cracks in them, since they’re still the same mass and weight. Think of getting hit with a wooden baseball bat - if it’s cracked, does it hurt any less (answer - not really)? Aganos NEEDS that damage, after all how easy do you think it is to knock someone through 2 or more walls? It’s not! A peacekeeper hit, BTW, only does 13-15% damage on hit.
Regarding the buffs:
cancelling normals on hit or block into wall would be absolutely broken.*
you can already put up a wall safely after a pulverize ender.
where would he put the peacekeeper wall? In front of him? That won’t work. If it’s behind him, I’d like to see the animation for that. Besides, why would he place a wall, pick it up, only to then put it back? He’s better off actually using it or throwing it at the enemy.
summoning 2 walls a the same time is a) too powerful and b) doesn’t allow for range of placement (are they close, far, etc.).
why would I want to spend 2 chunks for a weaker peacemaker when I can spend 1 for a stronger 1? That’s not even a buff.
a wall moving another wall from its place doesn’t obey the laws of phsyics.
randomly moving walls is not something that should be ever considered as being random is the LAST thing Aganos needs.
Don’t take this personally (in other words, no offense), but these ideas are ALL terrible IMO. Finally, it also sounds like WAY too much chunk management - there’s no way most players are going to want or care to remember all of that. By and large, he’s fine the way he is (at least as far as I’m concerned), so why change him? It’s as they say, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
I understand it isn’t personal, but when you say something like… [quote=“GalacticGeek, post:2, topic:3215”]
these ideas are ALL terrible
It’s kind of hard to not feel the pain.
I just wanted more unique ways to work with walls becuase right now the pros will only use a wall after the chunk ender or shadow payload assault. I know he isn’t broken and he plays just fine now, but I want to get more creative. Also, the idea of converting a peacemaker into a wall was simply an idea to make his instinct mode a bit more game-changing.
I am trying my absolute hardness to interpret this as constructive criticism (I truley believe you are trying to help) but You could have simply said that “these changes are too strong and seem unnecessary” Instead of picking apart why every idea I have on my favorite character is garbage. I am genuinely sorry that I am being this hostile, but I’m just irritated that this is the only feedback I have received.
Everyone’s words carry weight, and I feel bad that I am getting this worked up about it. I’m sorry I was irritated with your opinion.
you diverse better, we all do…
I’m sorry if I came on too strong, but I gotta say, this part of your post made me laugh - even though I’m sure it was an innocent mistake, considering the topic of conversation, I find it ironically hilarious and rather fitting.
Okay, tell you what. I’ll share an “off-the-wall” idea and you and others can feel free to pick it apart, chunk by chunk, if you’d like.
What if Aganos could put up a wall in front of him, in between him and the opponent. How cool would that be? To be fair and balanced, it’d only be temporary. It could potentially be used to stop ALL projectiles in their tracks or for Aganos to smash through to devestating effect either with his standing HP or HK (think HP Payload Assault kind of attack). Perhaps, he could use said wall to throw chunks at his opponent. Think about it - he could spend all 4 chunks to put up the wall at full strength (3 hit points, 1 per chunk + 1 to set up the wall itself). He could then hit the top, middle or bottom of the wall out as projectiles or the whole thing to “bazooka” the enemy (all of which is unavoidable, but blockable, similar to shadow payload assault - perhaps this could be the shadow variation of the attack). This, naturally, would replace his payload assault ability altogether, basically doing the same thing as it does now, but in a different manner, as well as having the added benefits as outlined below.
The wall would still prevent the opponent from passing through unless they can hit it the subsequent amount of times to break it or use 1 shadow attack (since those always hit 5x or more). This can buy Aganos time to go on the offensive (I can just picture his natural disaster smashign through the wall) or build up his defenses briefly (as in getting more chunks).
I don’t think most of these ideas are likely to be implemented (because they don’t really help Aganos’s bad matchups, or make his strong ones any worse), but I also don’t think all of them were purely terrible. I’ve seen a lot worse suggestions on these forums.
Canceling a normal into chunk up is the most dangerous one in the list, of course. That can never happen.
I also don’t think switching which ender you do to put a wall up is actually that big of a deal. If you get 4 chunks via the chunk ender, you don’t really have enough time to put a wall down, and the pulverize ender does a lot of damage. In general I don’t think it’s a bad idea to let Aganos build chunks and put a wall down (at the cost of all his oki).
Thanks, this was kind of just venting. I am a pretty emotional person and I don’t have a lot of things going wrong in my life, so I sometimes find insignificant things to worry about. And as I said, many of the criticisms where valid, and I new that going in. I overreacted (like I thought I would) but all is well. I just can’t wait to see what may happen to my boy Aggie in season 3.
And if they end up letting him cancel normals into a wall, I am gonna be laughing for days
also…[quote=“GalacticGeek, post:4, topic:3215”]
I see what you did there ;)
Wait, so you’re mad someone called your idea terrible and proceeded to explain why? You’re taking it less as constructive criticism and more as a pointed insult. If he specifically called it terrible, it was because that’s what they are (c’mon, even suggesting normal cancel into walls is madness!).
Let me try to make it seem more polite. While your ideas have some amazing visual credit to them, their implication in the game would make Aganos unbalanced. Sure, a couple ideas may get in but quite modified (The walls doing less damage per their condition and converting Peacemaker into a Wall are decent ones) but the other changes would make fighting him quite a bit more difficult than it already is.
OK, I will admit that most of these ideas are pretty ridiculous and I’m thankful for everyone being honest. I’m not often good at taking criticism (in case that is not already apparent) but I will try to improve. On that note, I have another balance Idea!!! (and this time I’m ready for the feedback)
Aganos Can now Charge LP (standing, crouching, anti-air, and aerial)
I only suggest this because when you see his flick during his ultra it feels so beefy. I imagine that if Aganos hits you with a charge flick, It can do slightly more damage and send characters a little farther away based on how long it was charged for. Also, I would love it if a flick with a high enough charge could actually reflect projectiles (if that is not broken, I’m not quite sure what would be).
Go ahead and pick it apart or suggest your own changes. I’ll try my best to see your feedback for what it truely is; feedback, not negativity.