Geek, cut the attitude. I know you need to be reminded that your rude-ness gets out of control sometimes. please return to our seat lol. We love ya though man!
Ahem
Tier lists are developed by the pros, that’s why their official.
Pros can be wrong though. Personally, I’d prefer a wider net to make it official. Say, all top 32 players, for example. It’s like how in research you need a large enough pool of random people to have relevant data.
I can’t believe you guys took the Geek-Tier bait AGAIN.
@FengShuiEnergy - this is what you should count for this year.
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Uhh normally they are a with other figure heads in the community. Pros are good but the whole community should be involved from my experience pros don’t find the dirt they use the stuff the peasants find but can’t use 100% effectively. Not saying pros can’t find stuff but I normally I See the lab monsters find things and the pros use it. Just things to take into an account. everyone should be in the conversation for creation.
I believe there are definitely bad matchups in this game, and the game has become more matchup based than before, however, It comes with the territory, KI characters are very diverse with huge deviations in tools, and archetypes.
I strongly believe the combo system makes it difficult to establish an accurate tier list with this game. The combo system sort of randomizes things a bit, e.g. You counterpick someone at a tournament, but this player has exceptional combo breaking skills. Even though you are at an advantage going by “the numbers”, the opponents ability to bypass getting opened sort of makes the matchup numbers not of the utmost importance. The same can be said to the offense, the ability to counterbreak and extend damage has a similar effect on balance.
I think this is the primary reason the game seems “too balanced” by some. The mechanics of the combo system are directly tied to balance.
Player skill is not a factor in a tier list.
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Hm? I don’t bother with tier lists. I let the matches do the talking.
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Tusk’s instinct is good because you can’t shadow counter him, but it’s also not that hard to just hold some pressure for about 7 seconds (if he goes nuts with special cancels, his instinct does not last long). You can block overhead on reaction and if he decides to do empty command dash into throw, then he wastes a ton of his own instinct time. You can also mash (non-shadow) reversal if you want.
His instinct is made better by the fact that he can special cancel his sword pokes (probably where the real juice is), but that’s not go nuts pressure, that’s neutral control.
I dunno, Tusk’s instinct seems just “pretty good” to me. He’ll hit you sometimes, but I probably won’t be sitting there petrified most of the time. It’s definitely not even close to S2 Wulf threatening.
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Outside top/bottom tiers, there’s really not much need for discussion, everybody’s viable outside imo the really bottom 3
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It’s worth noting that several characters from seasons 1&2 have DPs that are zero frames after the freeze, most of which are incidentally quite high on most tier lists: Jago, Fulgore, Orchid, Thunder & Aria (sword) all have DPs which are zero frames after the freeze, so Tusk wouldn’t be able to deflect these on reaction.
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I was talking about how many times people fall for the Geek-Tier bait. Being as we can reasonably expect few character releases this year, I assume tier-talk will become relatively commonplace (it is already, hell).
I despise Jago. Somehow I despise this statement even more.
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it’s hard to put an actual number. Mostly because any character can be made viable in ki.
If I were to make one itd be like this probably. And most of these have no order
S
Fulgore,jago,Aria,omen
A
thunder, Eyedol, Rash,Maya, hisako, tusk, kilgore( just based off early dealings), Kim wu, Orchid, riptor,mira
B Tj (still debating whether he’s higher or not)Gargos, cinder, Aganos, Raam, glacius, arbiter, Sabrewulf ,Shadow Jago
C spinal, Sadira, kan ra
I could go more in depth on why i have a certain character listee there or not.
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There are many points where I agree, and others were I disagree, but nothing so glaring than Spinal.
Could you elaborate his position?
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Seeing what bass or raven do with him might make this questionable. But spinal as a character still struggles pretty hard. Even if he manages to curse some characters 4-5 times you just have to touch him once to get him off in most cases. Example. Spinal vs omen thunder Aganos Maya general Raam eyedol etc. All of these characters have multi hitting openers. Or in raams case a throw that adds on multiple hits. They touch spinal once and all the work he did putting in those curses is gone. So spinals main mechanic is something that alot of the cast can just get around by simply getting one hit on him and knowing how to block against him. Now this isn’t saying spinal is bad. His corner vortex can be tough to deal with. But he needs resources to be effective. There are multiple characters that have even more nightmarish corner games and they dont need resources to get going. These characters also tend to have better normals, better defensive options and deal out better damage more frequently than spinal and are overall more versatile such as Orchid omen Maya wulf or thunder and others that I can list. So it’s not that spinal is bad. There’s just so many characters that can get around his main game. And they work his main game even better than he does.
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Disclaimer: I never took it as Spinal was bad, by any stretch of imagination.
Just curious since IMO he deserves a higher place, but I see your reasons
@LetalisVenator I agree Spinal has problems but ironically I main him and I’d put him higher than Gargos, Aganos and Raam. He has relatively slow and/or stubby medium normals but his lights and heavies are solid and pretty reliable, and even his crouching MP is more serviceable than a lot of medium normals in the cast. He can also run a strong pressure and mixup game midscreen as well as in the corner. I’d say he’s definitely worse than season 2 but better than early season 3 and around upper mid to lower high tier.
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I play all 3 of those characters you mentioned. In terms of losing fights and how many ppl can actually deal with their ■■■■ they have it easier than spinal by far. Gargos and Aganos only have a few hard fights. And only one per character is truly truly hard. And the recent changes turned raam into a nightmare from hell and put him up quite a bit. In fact all 3 of the characters benefited from the recent changes pretty heavily. I play against the best spinal fairly often. I can say that at least 3 of my characters I can use beat him cleanly. Among the other fights he loses. Spinal is still viable. In comparison to the rest of the cast his game plan is easier to get around.
I think Spinal is solidly mid-tier at least. He has pretty godlike heavies, a near unreactable high/low mixup, and one of the nastiest vortexes in the game from basically anywhere on the screen (resource dependent). He can also pile on damage when he wants to - he doesn’t have to be low damage if he doesn’t want be.
The meter curses aren’t super important these days, but the instinct curse means you’re probably only going to get one instinct per fight against a good one. That really, really matters.
I’d also put Gargos lower. He’s annoying as heck to fight, but I just think he struggles too much the instant he loses momentum.
Truth be told I don’t have a true low tier in this game lol.