UPDATED- Final Season 3 ReBalance Patch Notes

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42

People punish my Heavy Trailblazer with Cinder all the time, still -3.

43

It’s about duration, though: whether there’s enough time from the first tell of the move in startup, through to the reversal buffer at the end of blockstun, for your brain to wake up to what’s going on and buffer a DP. My impression is that Glacius’s light cold shoulder is pretty short in duration, whereas Cinder’s trailblazer has enough there that a Jago on top of their game can snap out that DP in time.

44

I’m talking about people who tech grabs on reaction.

EDIT: Totally wrong about this, enjoy the following posts of foolishness XD

45

That’s impossible.

2 Likes
47

No
you’re just predictable
sorry lol

49

Reads, option selects, etc. Nobody is capable of reacting to the startup of a throw attempt – there’s a rock solid body of research to the contrary.

50

I really don’t know how to explain this without sounding like a fool XD. You’re right, it’s impossible.

1 Like
51

http://ki.infil.net/reaction.html

There is science at play here. I highly suggest you read the link above about reaction times.

Lets not derail the thread any farther with a pointless argument about what can or cannot be reacted to, as science has already answered this for us absolutely.

3 Likes
52

Also if I could react to throw attempts, I’d probably choose to jump, not tech. Hit that sweet recovery punish every time. They’re probably leaning on that nice low-risk late tech OS: if they’re in blockstun their tech attempt is harmless.

53

Yup, totally sound like a fool XD

54

Does anyone have a link to the stream? I didn’t even know there was one today and to make matters worse I’m not seeing o. Twitch, I’m not sure if that has something to do with using the app or not.

55

Anyway, since I think the shoulder stuff is on topic (let me know if I’m wrong), I don’t know for sure wrt Glacius’s light shoulder. Maybe people can comfortably DP-punish it on block, you could be right about that. But there are factors to consider:

  • ~15-frame lower bound on reaction times.
  • You’re probably not identifying the first frame of startup, unless it’s really obvious. Maybe the third or fourth or something. Start your reaction clock then.
  • You kinda don’t have until the last frame of recovery from blockstun to snap out that DP. (Which is 3 frames before the end of recovery from doing the move.) You want to get started by the start of the reversal buffer, and moving from “ah, a shoulder, I am reacting” to even starting the DP input probably takes a few frames.
  • DPs take time to input, probably a few frames.
  • If you’re not really looking for it, you’re going to be slower to react.
  • If the DP is even a single frame late, then the DP character is eating a severe punish with probably 30%+ expected damage tied to it. So you need to be sure you can do it consistently.

These are the sorts of reasons why I think people aren’t getting the punish on Jago’s medium wind kick. (They’re sure as hell why I, as a Jago player, gave up trying to DP-punish wind kicks a long time ago.) It’s messy stuff, and you could get a better idea by looking at Glacius’s frame data and adding some stuff up, but you’re only going to know for sure once people have been playing for a while and players who main fast DP characters have settled on a given response.

56

Not as confident as you, but I suppose we’ll see in a few days.

57

Glacius Shatter Ender damage should not be reduced and neither should Orchid’s knee buster ender

58

yeah,
pretty unnecessary along with the jumping hk mk changes.

59

If you’ve ever fought a certain Glacius player (not me) then this change is welcome to you.

60

Ah, there it is. I was waiting for the shoe to drop on Glacius again; back in the punish house.

2 Likes
61

Can someone explain frame rates please? For some reason I thought minus was better for a character? But from the responses I guess its worse?

62

Yeah, positive frames are good. If an action leaves you at +3 frames, you essentially will act 3 frames ahead of your opponents next action. So if you use an attack which gives you +3 frames, and you and your opponent both use the same move next (assume mirror match for better mental imaging), your attack will beat theirs, “speed” wise.

That’s probably wrong under technical terms, but it’s always been the best way to describe it to myself when thinking about things like frame traps.

3 Likes
63

Does anybody besides me think Orchid is too good? :disappointed_relieved: