Ultra David Tweeting about KI

like they said at evo, you gotta treat KI right. Ki’s gotta be your bottom b****. This ain’t no side chick, where you main street fighter and play a little KI on the side, KI is the main B****. Learning gargos is a chore? Go play divekick, KI is too much woman for you. Your street fighter game doesn’t easily translate to KI? BooHoo, KI isn’t street fighter, you’re either in or out for high level play, you’re not gonna get top 8 because you play a decent Ken or Ryu.

However… you can still make killer rank and have a great time with the game, like most people do lol

7 Likes

I really do think these are major factors in the presented opinions of UltraDavid - especially with regard to his experiences with games that lack consistent guarantees of damage, and thus significantly different risk/reward conceptualization. I point directly to his positive views of the simplicity and clarity of Tusk/Mira kits, while disdaining the complexity and ambiguity of Gargos and RAAM’s.

Regarding misinformation, does anyone know if Arby ACTUALLY has a true automatic meaty grenade? I know, it’s super specific, but if it’s not true it’s still spreading caustic misinformation, which he, as a lawyer and hi-profile member of the FGC, should know better.

Also, @llPaulBll you forgot the tweet where he states that he just “commentates the games I like/play” and goes on to list pretty much every game at EVO EXCEPT KI, so how much his opinions on a game he apparently doesn’t like or play are worth is debatable, regardless of public stature (and no, the ensuing banter between him and Keits doesn’t change his original post).

I stand by the idea of slanted views based on long-term experience with guaranteed rewards and linear neutral structure. That describes pretty much every other fighting game. The brilliance of KI is the interaction beyond neutral, and the compound reward structure based on that level of interaction. This often seems disregarded when discussing balance, toolsets, and “the direction of the game”.

Just some thoughts and observations.

EDIT: This is all operating on the concept that the views expressed by UltraDavid could deter people from playing the game, or to gather into some warbling horde of haters and nerf-criers, which ISN’T LIKELY. I’m just making the point that a pile of opinions are no more than that - a pile of opinions. Some, perhaps, ill-informed. Some, perhaps, perfectly on point. But opinions nevertheless.

2 Likes

He doesn’t like omen because he’s transparent! Not really game play related tho is it.
The Raam instinct Yeah it’s a bit much but that’s the point of it I hear. To disorientate your opponents.

1 Like

HOW THE HELLL CAN YOU NOT LIKE OMEN???

WTF??? lololololol

I dont like Ultra David… never have. Seems like Sajam took his job in the SF commentary! OOHHHHHHHHH!!!

Its now the Sajam/Chen team!

Its all good…he can tweet tweet away. Doesn’t matter what he thinks…the game isnt changing based off Davids comments. Im sure the same scenarios can be said about SF5. More so than KI IMO…
How many mirror matches did KI have in top 8?
How many Mirror matches did SFv have in top 8?

Id say there are some tier/ balance issue in one of those…but what do I know?

9 Likes

Meh, every game has its Gargos, every game has their Arbiter. SFV is an example with extremely powerful characters with questionable setups. Yes Gargos and Arbiter have setups, but at the cost of lots of recourse. Look at Dhalism, his teleport yoga fire setups are hard to counter, even for tournament players. His Super can be easily combed for a massive church of life, along with the rest of the cast.
Bison is annoying with all his air shenanigans. although I do agree both characters need some tweaking. As for known streamers and figure heads of any community, their voice will be heard louder than ours. As much as you dislike it.

@GalacticGeek @MDMMORNING

You guys are going WAY TO DEEP into specifics, instead of looking at what really matters.

No viewer cares about the details of why a game looks bad or good, they care about the first thing their brain tells them when they look at it.

How many big names are going to have to tell us that KI needs work before we listen?

Everyone here has an attitude of: "We dont care what others say, KI is good"
But at the same time they have an attitude of: "Why isn’t our game bigger."
These 2 mindsets cant live next to eachother.

Every point needs to be listened to, instead of being torn apart with excuses about why their opinion isn’t 100% justified.

You guys want KI to be bigger? If UltraDavid put out ONE good tweet about KI, it would equate to a lot of new people downloading the trial and trying the game for themselves.

You guys want KI to be bigger? When a professional player comes out and says “Me and the other pros have some concerns”, Listen to them. Dont say: “Do you have a signed petition from all of the other KI pros saying that you are their official representative on the subject?”

7 Likes

David has never liked KI…Ive seen it written all over his face during the 1st times Sajam was on their show. He has this threatened SF purist way of coming off. He seemed to be nodding his head in agreement to what they were telling him but I bet if they said " repeat it back to me…he would have went " what did you say again?"
I dont believe he wants to like KI… he is trying it out of pressure from Chen. Its gonna take a hell of a lot of convincing to get David to like KI as much as SF. I dont think any change in the world to KI would sway him over.

But I get what you and PB are saying. He knows his stuff. But that doesnt mean his opinion is hammer that kills KI or keeps KI alive.

6 Likes

These other people are staples in the fighting game community. They influence others. David has a large following and history in the FGC. It would be like if we said “Lets ignore Maximillion, he isn’t important to the game.”

2 Likes

I may be reading a bit too far into it, sure. But accepting any pro player or commentators opinion as gospel because of their stature alone, without endeavoring to determine for oneself whether or not there is substance to the opinion, or indeed if it represents a larger group than themselves, is herd mentality, and much more dangerous.

Certainly, the game isn’t perfect. But devaluing what makes KI stand apart (and in my opinion, at least, above) from it’s competitors will not directly equate to a “better” game or increased sales/popularity. Restructuring the games take on what “neutral” consists of, restructuring the games assessment of risk/reward, does not necessarily mean improvement. A huge portion of complaints about “the direction of the game” seem to derive from these two key facets. Maybe I’m wrong.

What I do know is that people are fallible, pro-player, commentator, developer, and spectator alike.

Further, I didn’t catch David’s positive declarations for KI. Could you link them?

1 Like

I feel like as far as David’s Gargos criticisms I can’t recall how many times it has been said that KI is a very easy game to pick up and get the hang of but it’s extremely difficult to master. You are going to have to spend hours and hours and hours in matches and in the dojo to get a character down especially one with as many tools as Gargos has.

I am sure Thompson with Jago, Nicky with Fulgore, and @llPaulBll with Wulf had to have spend countless hours learning all of the ins and outs of their characters. So to say that a character that is difficult to use after a small amount of time with them isn’t a very good argument. But I don’t know how long he spent with Gargos.

The game is crazy right now. A lot of people are leaving or just complaining. Fact of the matter is, if the game were fine this wouldn’t be happening.

2 Likes

Thing is Max doesnt complain on that same level. He leaves the combat design to those that excel in it.

1 Like

That’s not the point. The point is that someone of deep history and influence shouldn’t be ignored. Whether Max is positive or negative doesn’t matter. What does matter is if people ignore anything he says on KI because people on here think people on Twitter shouldn’t be taken into account.

1 Like

Well we all have our own opinions on different subjects and while “pros” may have more experience with fighting games than others it’s up to us to not only process the information given to us but to research and dwelve into the subject to form our own opinions on things.

While Max loves MKX and he has a lot more experience in fighting games than me, I bought the game and thought it was just very boring. Nothing wrong with either of our opinions. That’s just what they are: opinions. And his opinion isn’t any greater than mine and mine isn’t any greater than his.

You are right…I just think someone that new to KI might not have the best understanding of why Omen is partially invisible and why raams instinct is the way it is. Maybe he should spend a bit more time trying to understand before tweeting to the world I DONT LIKE THIS SO EHHHHHHH!

5 Likes

Concerns with validated evidence is 1 thing, but a lot of these tweets are pure opinion of “I like or don’t like this” with very little detail as to why he’s made those opinions. The problem with this is that a good deal of players will look at that and simply agree with him due to his status rather than actually looking at the characters themselves and then forming their own opinions. That can hurt the game.

It’s kind of like having a celebrity endorse a hair-product. Some fans will buy that product, even if it’s bad for you or not really good compared to other products, simply because the celebrity endorsed it.

I don’t care who spouts off opinions or even what those opinions are, so long as those opinions are intelligently communicated and explained, especially if it’s an expert giving such opinions that has more influence tin the community than others.

By not giving a logical reason behind his opinion, his opinion means just about as much as M00nlight Ninja’s opinions. The only real difference between the 2 is that people know not to listen to the latter, but because people will listen to the former, real harm can be done as people blindly agree with him.

I just want people to open their eyes and form their own informed opinions rather than simply to agree with an expert who fails to expain his reasoning just 'cause.

6 Likes

That’s probably incorrect. Am sure MS/Iron Galaxy values his opinion and videos he puts on youtube more than most of the people on this forum. If he were able to make a super negative video am sure they would immediately respond and try to fix the issue.

Taking that he is involved in this game out of the equation I don’t agree with this. So say if someone with a lot of clout in the FGC just one day says “I don’t like Arbiter because he’s ugly and his grenade shenanigans are getting on my nerves” their just going to drop everything and remove him from the game because of his opinion alone?

2 Likes