Tj combo needs buffs defensively!

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41

Mobility is the sum of all his movement options, not just walk and dash speed.[quote=“llhonestyll, post:37, topic:10953”]
IT HAS LOST ALL OF ITS INVINCIBILITY!!
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As @ItsBlem has shown, it most certainly as not. The move is still FULLY projectile invincible, and upper body invincible. High and mid moves will whiff it.

So Shadow Vortex being fully invulnerable on startup, LK flipout, HP staggers, and Target Combos just aren’t enough huh? I remember Thunder being in a VERY similar situation for 2 seasons straight.

As for Mira, she may have some good tools, but you commented on general stability, not popularity. Popularity is no statistic by which to measure a character’s general playstyle aptitude. While Mira may have a following (that I certainly haven’t heard of), popularity doesn’t dictate her matchup statistics, how good her wakeup is, her complexity level, ease of use, overall tool set versatility, etc. From what matchup data and videos I’ve seen, she has to expend a LOT of health for those heavy auto doubles and specials. She may be able to get it back, but how easy is it for her to move in on her opponent to get it back? That’s not dictated by popularity, it’s determined by player resourcefulness and good planning.

Overall, TJ has far more stable gameplay, he’s got adequate tools to nail good damage and hit hard, and even if he loses momentum, it’s no where near the “game over” scenario. While he may have a difficult time getting back in the saddle, he doesn’t have to put up nearly as much risk as someone like Mira to achieve the same goal. Mira has to risk a lot of life, even if she can get it back, and her glass jaw is a very risky gambit to play in that situation. TJ by comparison, at worst should only have to risk a little shadow meter.

Also, shoot toss got a massive KV penalty reduction, TJ should have some juggle combos for that ready too, making him even harder to read. Mix that with flipout resets, TJ is an offensive monster.

1 Like
42

I’ve gotten TJ Combo to level 50 and have had plenty of experience with TJ Combo…

…in S2, post auto-barrage nerf, that is. Because of this, I will admit that I’m still adjusting to his S3 shenanigans (flip-outs, command chain normals, not having tremor linker, etc.) that basically makes him good in the new season, but everything I mentioned above is still there - it’s passed on from S2 into S3 untouched.

43

Well, that’s news for me. I’ve never heard of this move. What is it called?

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44

That block button.

45

didnt they make aganos shadow closeline punch completely invincible in season3?? i remember keits saying that

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46

Shadow ruin has some frames of hit invulnerability, and after that, infinite armor. But its still throwable in any moment. This means, a reversal shadow ruin loses to a normal grab.

Shadow pulverize is invul to throws, but not to hits. Reversal shadow pulverize loses to a meaty jab

Forget about backdash, is horrible, they could use throw, fail, and still throw you during backdash recovery.

So, TJ has better options than Aganos on wake up.

IMO TJ its fine, he struggles sometimes on wake up and defense, but it’s not so difficult as other characters have to face. He has crazy resets, good preassure game, and probably the best combo trait in the game. Character diversity its a thing in this game. Some characters lack options in some departaments, but they are compensated somehow. He is fine.

If I were you, I would consider switching to another character for a time, not because I want you to drop TJ, it’s because maybe you aren’t aware of all the other characters flaws. I try to use regulary all characters in exibition to be familiar with their strenghs and weakness.

47

I hate how all these TJ, Wulf, Sadira and Kan-Ra players would rather complain that their character sucks instead of realizing that they are still really good but take more work to use. Come on, let’s be honest, these characters got away with MURDER in their respective seasons.

TJ’s defense sucks, but he has a fully invulnerable shadow reversal that gives him a combo. Some characters wish they could have that, trust me.

I can see TJ being a struggle character, one that takes extensive work and good reads to win with. I know how that feels, I play Cinder, who has to either land 10+ combos with negative moves or risk a burnout. Does that make the character bad or unviable? No. You just have to try harder.

TBH I am terrified of TJ players. Powerline is super fast, hits like a truck and is safe. Tremor can recap me from half screen. And that flip out? Jeez.

TJ is fine. You just have to try harder to make him work. Big deal.

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48

All powerful characters, both on their release/season/next season/present.

Agree. All characters are viable, but some of them demand more work to use. And that’s fair

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49

Everyone remembers wulf’s backdash and 6,0 shadow ecslipe of during early S1? Or sadira breaking the counter breaker rules with webs and manual jump normals which then you could manual normals together very easily and string huge damaging ombos?

Yup…those were the days…

50

i actually main ,tj tusk and jago so i appreciate the good tools tj has. when i look at tj strong offense i feel its on the same level over all as other characters in ki that have great defense as well. a defensive buff for tj would be nice but if he doesnt get one ,its ok tj will just remain in bottom tier in ki which isnt that far away from top tier because of how balanced ki is

51

I still dont understand why you consider him low tier.

Without entering in numbers, could you rate every TJ Match up? Limit it to favorable, unfavorable and even. For example:

Jago +
Wulf -
Glacius x

In this example, TJ has advantage against Jago, it’s even with Glacius, and has disadvantages against Sabrewulf(this is just an example).

How would you rate TJ against the rest of the cast without entering in details? I’m curious to see how many MU do you think he loses/wins.

52

It’s like IG said; when it comes to buffs, they tend to amplify strengths as opposed to fixing a weakness. Right now, defense is one of TJ’s only weaknesses so it is unlikely to change.

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53

Get this man a cookie.

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54

:cookie:?

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55

:cookie: for days.

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56

Nope, it is hit invincible (but not throw invincible) for the first 7 frames.

Aganos has to guess whether you will throw him (then do shadow pulverize or take a massive risk and jump), or whether you will meaty him (and then do, I guess, shadow ruin or block). Because armor loses to fierces now, if you meaty with a fierce he cannot escape this guess.

Aganos has no move that answers all options, and he’s not the only one. Hisako and Sadira are in a similar boat, just to name two others. Sadira’s invincible escape costs meter and actually doesn’t even work against smart offense, because it can be chased after it runs out of invincibility but before Sadira can act.

TJ’s defensive options are actually fairly middle of the road. A serviceable but not spectacular backdash, a fully projectile invincible roll (and it will still beat some high-profile moves, which has uses in some matchups), and a fully invincible shadow vortex that is safe jumpable (like most reversals). They are far from worst in the game, and this is provable. In fact, making shadow vortex actually invincible instead of having a gap means TJ’s wakeup is better than in S2, despite the roll nerf. It means you don’t get to meaty OS him for free anymore. Roll tended to work because players in KI are sloppy and it’s a scrambly game, but it wasn’t a way out of pressure against good players.

I understand that losing roll is hard for TJ. If you didn’t have an OS planned, you could just kinda slip around all you want against moves that didn’t have huge active frames (ie, about 95% of the moves in the game). It was pretty silly. Now, TJ has better strengths in neutral and during pressure, and has to play a regular defensive game that all other characters have to play. If you accept this fact, maybe you’ll look to capitalize on TJ’s newer strengths and stop thinking that you deserve to scramble your way out of most wakeup situations.

I swear, if current TJ was released as a S3 character without any knowledge of a previous version of TJ, you all would think he was really good. Stagger normals canceled into command grab and backstep? Flipout that leads to a 4-way mixup whenever you want (because he can put you in a juggle state at will)? An instinct that turns him into an unstoppable force that would actually be good if people stopped using it on last breath and then dying immediately anyway? The best corner push in the game on his enders and linkers, and maybe the hardest trait in the game to combo break? I mean… this isn’t describing a low tier character. “Should probably block on wakeup a bit” doesn’t invalidate Spinal as a character, it won’t invalidate TJ, no matter what Rebelo says.

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57

@Infilament, sir, thank you for this well thought analysis and post. You are 100% correct, and I do think some, if not most, of us TJ players agree with your post.

That being said, I’m highly skeptical you’re doing anything more than banging your head against a wall arguing for honest TJ assessment in this thread.

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58

thanks for taking time and contibuting to the discussion. you are making a lot of sense. tj isnt bad just worse defensively overall imo. he isnt top tier probably low mid at best and most likely bottom tier , but in a very balanced game like ki that doesnt mean much. its just that against skilled opponents tj can find himself in very difficult situations. like sadira matchup used to be better but roling away from her air mixups isnt nearly as reliable as they used to be

59

Maybe you aren’t familiar with how I typically interact on these forums.

I am a professional head-on-wall banger.

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60

[quote=“Infilament, post:59, topic:10953, full:true”]I am a professional head-on-wall banger.
[/quote]

We might be family, good sir.