Tj combo needs buffs defensively!

tj is good offensively, but i feel his defensive options puts him in bottom tier!!.tj tremor is a fundamental part of tj combos but unlike regular combo breaks causing flip outs a break on tremor put tj on his back, where he can be pressured to death. tj wakeup is probably the worst in the game it hits on the 9th frame so meaty jab will recover before shadow vortex hits and it can easily be safe jumped, and shadow vortex has very limited range and whats even worse unlike any other wakeup in the game, if tj shadow vortex tags a limb of an opponent the opponent can quick rise and punish tj because the amazingly long revovery of tj vortex and its very very small can only reliably antiair some of the cast with regular vortex.
tj has to be the most unstable character in ki. imo one of the buffs tj needs badly is for his light vortex to hit once so they would cut out completely the animation of the secondary uppercut and make it impossible to combo off as well as completely invincible or at the very least upper body invulnerable so tj can can anti air with more consistency and not get mulled on wakeup even when he has meter. i understand why tj role was weakened but his defensive options right now are just very bad even with meter, but i have to say i dont think the nerf to tj tremor so it no longer crushes lows is justified… what do u guys think?? currently tj has to be at the bottom of any current tier lists which isnt saying much becasue of how compressed tiers are in ki but if their goal is for ki to be as balanced as possible tj really needs some defensive buffs

I think instead of trying to punish on wakeup or anti-air, where he’s weak, that you should use a strength of his instead - dashing. His forward and backward dash are really good, so use them on the aforementioned wakeups and jump-ins. Get out of range of your opponent’s wakeup or away/under their jumping attack, then punish accordingly from a range where TJ is actually good at (which, BTW is basically sweep to medium range - you’ll notice a lot of his moves have good reach or move him forward). React and punish. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Be the champion you were always meant to be. :wink:

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TJ is terrible defensively. You’re right. But, it’s just part of balancing him I guess. I main him.

Here are some of my clips:

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Man I’m tired of hearing about how TJ is bottom tier. He’s not. He just really, really, is not…best combo trait in the game (even stronger now), fantastic flipout and reset options, gets an insane amount off staggers (and liberal use of staggers due to his new target combos), does good damage, fantastic instinct, full screen projectile to prevent hardcore zoning, full screen armored special with variable options. He didn’t need a strike invincible roll to spam on wakeup, and he doesn’t need a throw invincible, low crushing special to spam on wakeup. TJ’s defense is not great, this is true. He is also very potent on offense and in scramble situations, however.

And there are several characters with worse defense on knockdown. Sadira has nothing offensive to get up with at all. If you think someone getting away with a meaty jab on your reversal is bad, try watching someone meaty fierce you, and then jumping up to bat you out of the air with a jump+MP without you being able to do a damn thing about it. Aganos gets to guess meaty heavy/throw regardless of his meter situation, and Hisako gets to guess high/low/throw independent of hers - and both of these characters also have the worst backdashes in the game. Kan-Ra’s got nothing on wakeup without an active sand trap, and Gargos’ reversal is 50-some frames. TJ is definitively not the character who struggles hardest on knockdown.

TJ has moderately poor defense by the standards of this game. But he’s also got fearsome offense and mixup potential on the other side of that coin. He doesn’t need defensive buffs - TJ players need to adjust to having to block on wakeup.


This. I’ve learned the hard way. Have to become a defensive blocking specialist to play as TJ.

i appreciate what u said, but honestly its obvious you dont have significant experience with tj. his forward and back dashes are nothing special. tj currently is terrible defensively compared to the rest of the cast.
@oShift2oVet78 i understand what you are saying abt balance but if u look at tj critically he doesnt have any offense relative to the rest of the cast that would justify tj being so bad defensively or having such bad normals. I main tj , jago , shago and tusk so i feel i have a pretty balanced point of view. and the struggle is real for tj defensively yet at high level yet i dont feel his offense is stronger than my other characters over all

Friend, might I offer some free advice?

Don’t use the “obviously you don’t know” retort. Ever. Especially against these folks, some of the most knowledgeable and benevolent posters on here. If you take offense to the claim of TJ’s dashes not being special or great, refute it with logic and comparisons. Don’t just dismiss it like some one “obviously doesn’t know”, but still wants to sound relevant.

Because, if you’re downplaying his offensive options like you are above… it isn’t them who “obviously don’t know”.


you are wrong on so many levels sadira has a zero frame move its not a reversal but in most situations it can be used as such, and sadira has an invincible escape move!! aganos has a completely invincible wakeup …stop it!! how is tremor spamming when its negative and full combo punishable??? smh you are comparing apples and oranges. there is a reason why all tj’s are complaining tj isnt strong enough offensively to justify being as bad as he is defensively

i repeat if u think tj forward and back dash are good u dont play the character. how am i down playing tj offense when i already said its good,i said he needs defensive buffs if not we wont be seeing any tj’s doing well in competitive play and thats fine if thats what the developers want. but if they are striving for a bbalanced game tj currently is very bad defensively

I play TJ. I think his dashes are great. Congratulations, you’ve been refuted because you just didn’t put any effort or intellect into your argument.

And second, was it Rebelo in top 4 at the KI World Cup this year, playing TJ, before all these wonderful season 3 buffs? Wasn’t it him? Because… I mean, the World Cup is just some dinky local, but that sounds like competing and running well with him to me.

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A couple weeks ago I would’ve agreed but not so much now.

People liked TJ the way he was because yes, he was great but he was also a bit troublesome to fight against considering his low invulnerable, multiple linkers, and devastating unknown mix up potentials.

I like him now, he is great. A shame people gave him up because he isn’t uber obnoxious anymore. I like the decisions especially after facing a formidable TJ who utilized all of TJs assets making his weaknesses seem almost nonexistent.

On that note, everyone has a weakness - it’s part of their character and what makes the cast diverse. “But, Tiger, Jago has all tools and hardly any weaknesses!” Yeah, try getting a level four ender without getting broken at every chance. To name a few weaknesses for the purpose of flourishing my point,

Jago: His own generic and non-gimmicky character makes him rather predictable in his setups and because he was the very first character, a combo breaker veteran can easily figure his strengths.
Kim Wu: She has a terrible shadow counter in most instances.
Shago: Terrible damage, lock-outs are required for solid damage.
Omen: Low damage, forced to rely on fireball setups.
Etc. Etc.

Point is, every character has their strengths and weakness, TJ is no different and people who put in the work will get a great result.

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His dashes aren’t great, IMO, but they get the job done. Bottom line, if TJ suffers a hard knockdown, you’re in trouble. Just the reality of the character. Not going to change. Can be very frustrating, but it must be accepeted. I win 80% of matches, despite this glaring weakness. And I’ve played over 2k hrs, so I’m not just talking out of my @$$.

You need a little luck and more skill to get out of a jam with TJ. Some opponents, that I splits sets with, can make me look REALLY bad cause they lock me down in the corner. Next thing you know, I win the next 2 rds. TJ is very momentum based.

rebelo?? dont u know he dropped ki like after he saw and experienced what its like to play as tj in season3?? at the world cup tj still had his role. how many tj’s do u see now now doing work in competitive play?? tj bad matchups in season 2 got worse in season3. all i am saying is tj wasnt compensated adequately defensively for the loss of the role. now tj is only good in some match at high level play

Better then Jagos…

I did not. That being said, TJ had less offensive options at that point and, what, a fully invincible roll special? That move was a good wake up but it didn’t get you out of all situations. His defensive options have always been sub par, but he has strong offense, especially now.

I think you’re confusing how good a character is with how easy they are to play. Makes sense if you’re complaining about TJ compared to Jago and Shago. TJ requires some of the most effort and quick thinking in the game. That doesn’t make him bad or unviable.

One thing I do wish that they would buff is his grab range. A lot of times I’ll try to grab my opponent, and whiff and then they’re able to grab me when neither one of our characters has moved. So this just shows that TJ’s grab is the shortest in the game.

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whats the point in comparing tj dashes jagos?? currently as a jago main myself jago is in a perfect place currently, amazing stable balanced character

I would be fine with that. I already play TJ like a grappler with stagger pressure. It would be nice for a bit more range on that throw.

please read what i said , i never said tj is a bad character i said he is bad defensively !! big difference!!! ki is such an awesome game that yeah alot of characters are viable, but what separates characters in tier lists is their margin for error. even the worst character if played perfectly can win but the reality is we are humans . so the next question is what happens when we make a mistake ? the margin for error with tj is very very small at high level. thats why i said he is very unstable as a character

u cant play tj as a grappler at high level, too much recovery on his command grab and too low . its just something u should throw in every once in a while