I love this xD
In general, I think a character mechanic being “hidden” is not a great design decision. If something substantively changes the way a character or situation plays out, then both players should make their decisions “in the know”. Hiding a mechanic isn’t interesting - what’s interesting is two players with the same base knowledge set playing against one another, pitting their wits against their opponent. That’s what makes fighters fun
Cinder’s mechanic isn’t “hidden” per se, but it can be difficult to notice in the heat of the moment and with certain colors on certain stages. For a contrary example, how would you feel if Hisako’s wrath mechanic was similarly hidden? It also operates on a very specific time scale, and there actually is a visual indicator for full wrath. In theory it could work (perhaps with the visual indicator being slightly more pronounced), but it would be a bad idea. I shouldn’t get to play around with “haha can I counter you or not” as my trump card - both players should be privy to what my options are in a given scenario, and be forced to deal with the implications of those options.
dont mess with my cindah
I’d love a visual indicator, not only of when he’s fired up or not, but like stated previously, of how long it’ll be until he becomes fired up again.
A small, thinner meter on top of the shadow meter would do the trick (I’m thinking something like the meter fulgore has filling up for each new pip gauge), filling up with red and then becoming a bit shinier when it’s full.
Mainly, I’d like something that isn’t too intrusive, but that’s visible enough for both players to know when the fired up mechanic will be up and running. I think cinder’s opponents deserve to be made aware of this without having to notice how bright he looks, because it can be pretty hard in the midst of battle and with certain colors (white fire color, I’m thinking of you ^^’).
But then again, I’d also be all in for a stronger visual indicator on shago’s surged moves, something like a weaker version of the shadow moves effect, that would appear since the beginning of any surged move’s animation. I kinda hate information that isn’t clear to everyone involved acting as a ghetto gimmick.
I would love this. please do this.
I constantly think about how Cinder players incorporate “fired up” into their game strategy, and how to plan a counter-strategy around it. I always assumed that was something you had to PLAY Cinder to understand, feel, and plan around, but if the fired up state was a more obvious visual cue, then the mechanic would be more “up-front” and relevant for both players, even if you have never played Cinder before.
Im all for this too! it could fill up and drain just like the lock out timers or like Hisakos vengeance meter.
Especially now that you can spend the fired up state on the Throw> Burnout ender.
@TotalJimkata So what do you think?
I’m behind this idea 100%
It’s not really “hidden” the opponent has to pay more attention. How can they not notice? they should be looking right at him.
If I remember the devs said around 8 seconds or so for the fire-up to happen so long as he is not using any special moves. At leas tthat’s what I remember from the stream. I may be either wrong, or it changed. Either way.
It’s really not that hard to tell when he’s fired-up or not guys. Maybe we should get a visual cue or meter when Sadira gets a chance to do her bouncy attack. Or a Neon sign when Jago’s endokuken is fully charged.
my sarcasm aside. It should be really obvious.
This thread needs reviving. It’s such a good idea, we need to push harder for it.
You responded to a post 20 days later to provide a critique that amounts to “it should be obvious you blind bats”? Really? That’s the extent of your argument?
I already acknowledged in the post above that Cinder’s fired-up isn’t quite “hidden”. It can be difficult to see in certain colors on certain stages though, at least for those of us not blessed with your visual acuity I suppose.
And if you’re going to be dismissive, at least try to be dismissive with examples that bear a tangential relationship to how fired up actually works…
lol nice one, I guess your eyesight is so much better than everyone else’s if for you it’s that damn obvious amidst the chaos of the ongoing match and all the visual effects of the game, regardless of color or stage selected.
It’s obviously not hidden. And it’s obviously timed. That doesn’t make it all that easy to keep track off, if you’re fighting against cinder at all ^^’
I also see 0 relation between charged endokukens (there’s a pretty big indication on the doubled size of the projectile btw lol), and I won’t even comment ont he “sadira bouncy attack”.
I’m kinda indifferent on this. I mean, on the one hand, it’s a neat way to make it easier to read if you or your opponent is fired up. However, since it happens automatically and the effect is often pretty minimal, the visual indicator is more than sufficient most of the time.
On a side note: I always thought it’d be kinda rad if Cinder got fired up for successfully taunting his opponent. Maybe it’d be fun if it sped up his “fired up” timer if the player was getting into his cocky mindset.
A fair point. Sorry lol I keep forgetting that not all ideas like this=easy win for opponent. I also didn’t intend to be insulting in my post since berfore I thought about it, I assumed everyone who is familiar with Cinder would be able to know the visual cue. Then again I’m probably one of folks who plays Cinder quite a lot so I more or less was able pick up when I’m fired up at least when I’m doing a special move and it shows up. That being said I apologize.
After some time to think it over I’ve decided it may not be a bad idea. I suppose the reason I opposed it before was because it just seemed only the opponent benefits from a visual stand point. However after considering your rebuttals I’ll get behind the idea But here’s why:
1- While it will make it easier for the opponent to counter Cinder, it also means as Cinder player you can know when the fired up happens so you don’t waste a move when you need it. I had time to think about it and I remember when I’m trying to stick Mr.Snowman way out in the back with bombs I sometimes end up throwing a large bomb when I would hope to use it for later.
2- If you’ve done a combo like a wall-splat as an example and the gauge fills up, you can use that oppurtunity (if the move does fill up) and use it for a fire-up move etc.
So long as it also benefits Cinder, I’m up for it. and while this would be a stretch: it’d be cool if the gauge matches the color of the Cinder you are using.
They should make Fired-Up instinct only and make his LK Fireflash invincible.
I persoanllylike the fireup sae that it’s in now. Especially since in some situations you’ll be needing it against certain opponents.
For example: if Cinder’s inferno didn’t get a fired-up state when normal, I’d not be able to use it and then cancel into Shadow Trailblazer to close in on Glacius. Especially since I typically fight one that always stands full screen and while bombs are good they don’t always work.
There’s also alot of great and amazing combos people can pull off. By making it instinct only Cinder can actually suffer from the effect.
They nerf non-Fired Up Cinder to compensate for how good he is when he is Fired Up. I’d rather he be slightly better in general and move the Fired Up gimmicks to Instinct. I’d be willing to give up that inferno combo if bombs didn’t disappear (hail doesn’t disappear and Glacius gets free combo-breakers out of it), or if one of his Fireflashes was invincible, or Trailblazer had better priority.
LK fireflash is invincible. It ceases to be so fairly quickly and doesn’t become active until relatively late (and outright loses or trades with things as a result), but it is un-stuffable on startup.
If you’re upset about its unique vulnerabilities, then it may help to consider that we are talking about a down->up invincible reversal that catches most cross-ups. On the character with the best backdash in the game. Cinder is owed a couple vulnerabilities to his DP.
I’d rather not. It’d be good to keep options open. Certain MUs may not even really matter how good Cinder is without the fired-up state being Instinct mode only since Glacius will have you down and beatin’ by the time it’s over. Cinder needs to be able to get in close and certain tools he has benefited from in fired-up state help out in this manner. You only get Instinct mode twice. So you will only get two real opportunities to have the tools to get in close.
Aside from having a meter to tell you when fired-up is ready I like how Cinder is now. I’ve been able to work with those others issues already. I agree that it sucks that trailblazer and even shadow trailblazer are not great on their own but I’ve been able to find other means to combating opponents without relying on them.
Cinder isn’t just another rushdown type like Sabrewulf so one shouldn’t play like he’s Wulf. Not saying you do obviously.
What if like Fulgore has his single pip charge in Instinct, Cinder had something to shave a short amount of time off the charge for his fired up state?
I personally like the way he is now as far as Instinct goes.