The Replay and Analysis Thread


#1108

Thanks for the advice it’s much appreciated. On the pip cancel into DP your right I can cancel into it. I was trying to throw multiple fireballs there so that would of been a hard if at all possible cancel. On the heavy laser that was intentional but not on reaction. Just something I do a lot. I see a lot of gores teleport in after the stagger but I like a blade dash. If I have enough pips to cancel into a shadow blade dash I win outright instead of trade against the overhead.
I would love a set against whoever you want to play. I could use the practice against either character. Im outta town tonight but will be home the rest of the week. My schedule is pretty flexible so let me know when you wanna play and we’ll make it happen. Thanks again @FallibleJoker14


#1109

I’ve watched a couple times and I’m really disappointed in my play. Like you said very predictable and auto piloty. I know I can play better and that bugs me. Watching the set again I see so many missed buttons where I was trying to do too many different things at the same time. Resulting in random jumps and whiffed grabs as I fumbled though different thoughts and strategies at the same time. I think that’s a big part of why I go into auto pilot easy especially against better/ known opponents. I know my defense is my biggest liability so when I am trying to focus on defense instead of my obsession to push buttons on offense I lose all creativity in my offense when it’s my turn to hit you. I need to get better on switching gears. As you all know you can get pretty “far” with “generic”, “brain dead” play in this game aka my “killer” status lol. And I’m a victim of that as I wreck plenty of others and even pick off some better wins but no consistency. Yet I know I can do better because i’ve seen myself do it just need more focus to do it more reliably. Let’s play again sometime. Cheers!


#1110

Hello Forum Wizards, lend me your wisdom!

Here is a set between me and @adrunkhalfbreed

It consist of my Jago,Eagle,and Raam going up against his Fulgore

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

Just be careful of obvious jumpins, but good job on some of those pip cancel reactions! :+1:


#1111

FT10 set between myself and @s0undy44:

My thoughts and feedback for you below. Some of these we discussed a bit after the set, but hopefully the extra content/context is helpful. As I said before I actually think your Cinder is pretty clean, but there are some key decisions you make that make you less scary than you otherwise would be.

  • You let me get away with murder within the combo game. It’s fine to not like breaking, but you can’t just let a high-damage character like Hisako rock out with heavies at will. She’ll outdamage you very quickly if you do.
  • You let me break without consequence too often for too long. You have to be willing to check an opponent’s breaking habits when they’re doing it as frequently as I was.
  • You have an over-reliance on hard-to-break juggles. For one, Cinder’s juggles are not actually that hard to break if an opponent knows what they’re looking for (even online there are a fair amount of his tools that are reactable), but for another they are generally low damage. Even when I locked out super early I could just kinda shrug and go “meh”, because I was already popped up in the air and I knew whatever you hit me with wouldn’t really hurt much.
  • Relatedly, your reliance on juggles means that most of your meter goes to shadow cashout, meaning you’re almost never using it to pile on damage. Cinder has general damage disparities with much of the cast, but you make the situation much worse when you can’t capitalize on lockouts because you’re meter-starved or saving it for a juggle cashout.
  • I think you should rethink the way you use your instinct. You almost invariably wait to use it until you can get a bomb loop hard-to-breakable, which means two things. First and most important, it means you often only get one instinct. This is always bad, and should be something you never let happen (lest you think I’m a hypocrite, rest assured that if you ever see me lose a bar with full instinct, it’s only because I didn’t get wakeup activation). Second, I rank Cinder bomb loops with TJ’s last breath and Hisako’s stagger swag - it is how I hope my opponent uses his instinct. It is my dream that a Cinder player use his instinct for this, because it’s much less scary than any other use for it. Sure it’s pretty hard to break, but you spend two shadow meters and the vast majority of your instinct time to grab 40% or so. It’s not ideal to get hit by, but if I lose my first lifebar to it it’s very whatever. You’re now resourceless, and because you probably held onto instinct I don’t even have to worry about you doing it again.
  • Like a lot of Cinder’s, you rely very heavily on mediums. His MP autodouble being faster than the norm makes it a good option, but at high level people are primed to look for it, and it’s pretty reactable in that context. A lot of my breaks were reactionary, but a fair amount were also guesses, simply because you tended to use mediums so much in certain situations. Your combo patterns are pretty consistent.
  • A bit more of a subtle thing, but you also move in pretty consistent ways. I was able to hit you with so many raw shadow-ORZ’s because there are certain ranges you stand for certain amounts of time before tossing a pyre bomb or jumping back. It’s not a big thing (I doubt most players would notice, and certainly not outside of a longer set), but it’s always nice to be aware of your own cadences and to know how to modify them. You did much better in that regard in the extra games we played.
  • DP in between rekkas. For DP characters, there’s no reason to hold Hisako rekka mixups. Force me to make the read between counter canceling or not.
  • Don’t be afraid to be more active on wakeup. Being a bit nutty on wakeup forces me to contend with your nuttiness, and ensure that i don’t get to just do what I want on your wakeup. You did better in this in the extra matches after the “official” FT10.

That’s most of what struck me about our matches. Hope it helps! :+1:t5:


#1112

So I recently looked up all the games I lost to past few days and came up to several conclusions, some of those you stated. I need to be more active on my wakeup, I need to pop instinct twice a game, I like to save it for crossfire cancel or overhead trailblazer cancel, but that means I miss one activation. The good idea is to pop it on my wakeup, against Hisako it kinda doesn’t work that well, but overall that’s a way. Against Hisako I need to watch out for her long range low. I have to consider low size of Hisako, because I can whiff some air stuff on her. Thx for all the feedback, appreciate that.


#1113

Can you analyze the set I had with you?

EDIT: link


#1114

I don’t mind, but that links to the set with ManCode (unless that’s you I guess?).

EDIT: which actually would make a fair bit of sense now that I think about it :joy:


#1115

Yeah Im Mrmancode. I try to put notifications that the two tags are me on most of the bios.Its on my twitter bio, discord and my KIUF bio.


#1116

Ah. Yeah, I basically never check people’s bios on any medium. This link should embed properly:

To be perfectly honest, both times I’ve watched this set I’ve seen more stuff that I need to fix and work on in the MU than the reverse. My muscle memory is too tied to countering high, needing to shadow counter more, be less afraid to just eat Shin’s instinct grab, etc.

So yeah, don’t honestly have a ton of feedback for you. A few things I noticed though:

  • If you’ve already hit the opponent, there’s no reason to turn your rekka into an overhead. All this does is give the opponent a break opportunity where they previously didn’t have one. I guess it’s a good ambiguous linker, but in that case you should move away from using medium so reflexively there.
  • You use a lot of strings/confirms that are pretty shadow counterable. You do mix and match a bit, but I think if someone responded to your Shin the way they do to Orchid (who I SC the instant she touches me) it would be quite strong.
  • You’re too active on wakeup. Out of all the TK ORZ’s I did all set, across 15 games, you blocked precisely one of them. Shin gets to play a bit on her wakeup because of the DP/backdash/light slice mixup, but you rely entirely too much on that. If I properly time my TK, none of those are viable options.
  • On one of the TK’s I missed I saw that you teched throw. I think wakeup throw is always a terrible option against Hisako. If I want to grab you I’m going to influence or meaty possess you, and if I want to hit you your throw tech isn’t going to do squat. The only character in the game who gets to throw on his wakeup against Hisako is Cinder, because his bloody DP is such a pain to make come out wrong side that she might just say ■■■■■ it and try to block. Shin’s DP is absolutely free to make whiff, so I’m never going to sit and block on your wakeup.
  • Not even Shin can backdash a meaty ORZ. If I see you flinch, all I have to do it mash out HP and I will catch you. When you see meaty rekka coming, you need to either DP or just block. Shin has a DP, so you don’t even have to hold the mixup.

That’s pretty much it. The last five games I think just kind of got away from you because you started to break less effectively overall. Base Sako outdamages Shin pretty heavily in general, but especially so if you start locking out early and I get to go nuts with heavies and shadows. Gg’s again, and hope the observations help :+1:t5:


#1117

Oooh, a Shin Hisako player. I need to watch this :slight_smile:


#1118

SWK is definitely one of the top 3 Shin players in the world. :+1:t5:


#1120

So I’m now ranked Gold and matches are 2 out of 3, I guess. I think this match went well and was fairly even, so I think it shows my playstyle well enough

Shago is always a tough one for me. I’m just not used to his set of tools, and they’re wacky. I know certain things I’m doing wrong (I should be using cr.MK more, but I just recently found out it’s useful), but please have at it. Be ruthless.


#1121

Ran into @s0undy44 in Ranked and had a fun 2 out of 3 with him. Linking playlist below. Let me know what kind of weaknesses I should prioritize working on

@STORM179 and @Cabp15 for Hisako-based feedback.


#1122

Pretty good fight all the way around, but NEVER just sit on your Instinct. Unless something desasterous happens you should be using at least two instincts per fight. If you can’t find an opening, use it to make an unsafe blocked attack safe.


#1123

Interesting. I avoid using it when a lifebar is almost gone, since it will be wasted during the break; that’s my rationale. I don’t find my Instinct helps me significantly anyways, which may be its own problem


#1124

Overall, very solid gameplay. Two considerations: firstly, you seem to rely a lot on heavy linkers. Personally, I believe it’s a huge mistake if you’re fighting against a killer. It’s very easy for him to break it.
Secondly, stop with the guess break. It’ll only harm you and give your opponent a free combo. If you’re not familiar with the character setups, it’s best that you accept the damage.
One more thing: at the end of the 1 round, you liked a shadow move to a special. Your opponent was defending. I have no idea why you did that. You granted him an easy combo break.
One last tip: Hisako can perry those combo breakers.


#1125

Alright, 4 a.m. reflections. You should wait for your wrath meter to recover, it allows you to laugh at my shadow counters. You do not use medium linkers, probability is on my side. Try to mix your rekkas and think about your mixup game -> I’m on the ground, I pray to lord not to get hit by you, lose 20~40% and get back to exact same scenario. You can use S Rekka to punish me for using fireballs. Your instinct is top 5 in the game, pop it on reaction whenever my char does anything close by, Hisako has a tool to neutralise it. @CodeComplete85


#1126

I believe you should jump a little bit less, keep slowly walking, dashing if need by. Sure, air rekka has its uses, but stay grounded. Look out for enemy combo/combo break patterns, I love to hit shadow moves on 2nd hit and sometimes go 2, 3, 4 or just 2, so if you notice it quickly, you can xb me on that one.


#1128

There is also some for @Cabp15. Try not to go for jumpgun into Mercy’s Demise that often. Stay on the ground, keep me locked with your normals, they are good. Add cmd grabs after some of your normals to make me scared, think about that possibility and thus think less about anything else. After instinct you like to pop grenade as a reversal, careful with that, freeze works for both players, someone can S Windkick you.


#1129

Thanks for all the feedback so far. A lot of it I’ve been suspecting and was nice to have confirmed.

@Cabp15 That unexplainable shadow was my sweaty hand hitting the PPP button. On the topic of parrying, do you mean the shadow counters? I was trying to do that, but it wasn’t working. My guess is I hit a punch during the shadow animation and that was queued up.