The real problem with KI and solution

I hear a lot from the community when you play online: 50 - 60% of players play with JAGO.
I am not so good in Killer Instinct, but i am decent with JAGO.
The reason that i am decent, and most of KI players, with jago is that there’s a dojo with jago.
Everybody can train with jago in the dojo; awesome!
But what for all the other characters?
Yeah, well a lot players will never be that good with other characters because you can not decent train without a dojo that teach you how to be good with this character.
Solution; add dojo modo for every single character! the community is asking for this already loooong time!
We need a dojo for every character together with the launch off season 3. With the pc port we gonna have a lot off new players and everybody will train in the dojo with… jago of course!
Result; even more jago players online.
This is the main problem at the moment. IG should really add dojo for every character first. And then release new characters, each with there own dojo.
Make this and you will see a lot more different characters online.
Players can then train with there favorite character.
Mine is spinal, but i’m better with jago thanks to the dojo.
Make me a dojo for every character and i’ll be better with spinal and we will see more different characters online. Always fighting jago is kinda boring. Sorry but it is.
I hope IG listens to what we ask already long time and start adding dojo mode for every one!
Thank you to IG for listening to the community and make this awesome game even better! :wink:

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I exposed this idea long ago, in a different way. But it wasn’t received like a success, you know.

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think it’s a better idea then changing the UI :angry:

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This isn’t the first thread calling fit a dojo mode for every character.
In fact, multiple dojos was in line for development towards the end of season 2, but got delayed due to time constraints.
It might still be happening in the near future.
Also
@InshunHozoin416 I fail to see how making the game accessible to more people is a bad thing. I think that the new UI updates and a dojo for each character (and maybe some tutorials & lore videos) would be great for encouraging new people to get into the game.

This scenario has always been a thing. People do want a dojo-mode for all characters I can see the benefit of this so cros your fingers and hope IG and MS give it a shot.

Fwufkins …

Just feels like the rules of the game are being changed in the middle of the game because you’re losing.

KI is my favourite game right now, so i have strong feelings for it and hate to see it changed :sob:

If you want accessible to newer players, more training modes would be better than changing the rules of the game.

  • training mode
  • exhibition mode
  • story mode
  • bronze leagues

… all those options, why change the UI?

It’s not changing the rules though. It’s just making it easier to realize your mistakes. The gameplay remains unchanged for the most part. Beware, though, KI is subject to frequent change (like when the game got a new character and was rebalanced every month for 8 months or so) so expecting it not to change is a good way to get heartbroken. :wink:
I agree that there should be more modes and ways to train, but changes to make the UI more usable for people if varying skill levels will be good for the game in the long run. After all, if the game catered only towards its top brass, it would fall even further out of the public eye.
I mean come on. If we’re going to build a hype train, everyone should be welcome on board.

i disagree … but it’s a problem i can’t fight.

just my opinion though …respect to yours.

if it ever gets changed back, it will be if enough people agree with bringing the UI and make it known.

I respect your opinion to, even if we disagree. :slight_smile:
Ideally, I think it should be something in the options menu. Everything should be able to tweaked in the options menu. I may be spoiled for that on PC games, but I generally think it holds true across all gaming.

I honestly never understood how people couldn’t just simply take what the dojo teaches you and apply it to another character. The dojo teaches you the basic bare minimum of the game in general, it just happened to use Jago to teach you those things. Heck it doesn’t even actually teach you Jago properly.

I rather have combo trials like Jago #32.
Not sure if people make this distinction. If dojo, is just going through some specials and ending with a few combos then no need to bother for my sake.
If dojo means that there will be bnb combos, setups, and insane combos to practice then I am all for it.

If I remember correctly, it was said that “something” like individual dojos would make it into season Two, but then it was no longer going to be in the game. I guess that the amount of work needed was going to be too much.

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What the hell are you talking about?!

The new UI changes just clarify information which is already technically available to both players anyway. Are you saying that you think it’s unfair that the player gets to learn that “no, that’s actually a heavy auto double” when they attempt to break medium and lock out?

There’s some super basic stuff like the “how to deal with fireballs” lesson that can get character-specific, but I think there’s value in teaching the player the more advanced lessons with each character, e.g. what the character’s good meaty options are, their frame traps, anti-airs, reversals, setups as you say, etc. I’d also like to see a unique combo tagged on the end of the input list for each lesson, so that players are forced to internalize some muscle memory with the character as they go. (I certainly found this helpful with Jago.)

But there’s other, more advanced stuff they could cover with each character. Good pressure is one I really want to see: teach some good pressure strings and have the player practice them whilst the opponent sporadically tries to interrupt, explain why they’re useful and the trade-offs between long jab-driven pressure strings and ones which accommodate combo openers, and get the player to mix them up with throws and overheads and whatnot. Practical option selects are an obvious one, too, especially seeing as though much of the game’s balance is driven by the existence of basic option selects, e.g., being able to option-select the endpoint of Spinal’s teleport on reaction to the startup. They could have advanced combo trials which train the sort of manual-driven combos that are characteristic of “optimal” play, i.e. mainly light/medium linkers, mainly manuals off of medium linkers, auto doubles off of lights, various weird character-specific links such as Jago’s “DP manual”, capitalizing off of lockouts, etc., rather than just peddling the flashy lesson 32 stuff as “advanced”.

I’d also like to see some advice about what to do when you’re on the back foot, what your character’s wakeup options are and what they’re contending with, what your options are for dealing with pressure, etc. It’d be really cool if the dojo found a way to teach some notions of yomi, attack-block-throw, etc, maybe explaining a given wakeup game to you and having you try to win out in damage terms over, say, 5 iterations…though that also might not work out. But I’ve wanted the game to teach some hard facts about human reaction times and the idea that fighting games are about gambling with your life bar more-so than pure skillful execution, so I hope this stuff can be done well.

And of course, it’d be great if they could find a way of teaching some general neutral strategy for each character – although I think that’s more a thing for a “Shadow Trials” feature, which pits the player against a specifically-trained Shadow and gives the player some hints, e.g. “this Shadow likes to jump a lot, try to focus on using the anti-air tools you leant in the Dojo!” or “this Shadow is particularly aggressive and doesn’t tend to pre-emptively hold back in the midrange enough, a few sporadic wind kicks should wreck it”, or “this shadow is pretty timid, just go in and start up some pressure”, or “this Shadow likes to throw a lot of fireballs, try to sammamish right through them!”.

One of the problems with all of this is that there’s a lot of matchup-specific stuff here, which means you need specific lessons for more like 200 matchups rather than 18 characters. Obviously that’s a lot of lessons, and it’s unrealistic to expect IG to produce and maintain the kind of content that gets into matchup specifics. What I’d like to see is a robust Dojo Editor feature, which allows users to design and share Dojo lessons. That way the players can produce and maintain character- and matchup-specific lessons, and devise new lessons as the metagame shifts with new discoveries.

That might require a lot of prototyping to figure out what the main editor concepts would be, and might even constrain lessons in the methods they can use to communicate and test lesson materials, but on the other hand it could make it easier for the devs themselves to pump out and test the base lessons: just implement the editor and get someone to sit in front of it and implement the desired lessons in-editor. In that way, individual lessons run far less of a risk of having proper code bugs, and the code that implements the dojo lessons sees far more coverage.

Anyway, this has gotten long and fanciful, so I’ll stop now.

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The problem with a lot of that though is that a lot of times the optimal character strategies and techniques aren’t what the devs intended them to be and there is a lot of stuff that even they don’t know about the characters, this is why people end up finding broken strategies or unbreakables and the devs have to come in later to fix them. Best example I can think of is Morrigan in UMVC3. She was intended to be a heavy rushdown character, instead players found out that she’s the best zoner in the game and that’s how everyone plays her now.

Well, it was a good read to me.

I think trials are also a promotion for a game. There have been youtube streamers and users that just post videos of that particular Persona trial or SSF4 trial, etc. purely because they are FG fans and trials are fun to do rather than them being huge fan of a game. So, I could see it (dojo trials) as a tool to promote KI as it invites people to take on the challenge and there is a good chance well known players will post their videos on how to clear them.
Not to mention that single player experience and modes are important too.

I don’t think basic dojo lessons need to care too much about absolutely optimal play. I just want the player to understand the concepts which drive effective play, and be able to map those concepts to solid character-specific tech which allows them to function effectively with the character in the broad range of scenarios they’ll encounter in a match. Even if a character turns out to be far more effective when played in a way completely unintended by the combat designers (which I don’t really think has been the case for KI, for the record), the devs did design each character to possess tools which allow the character to stand its ground in competent play, and an understanding (and executional practice) of those tools can form a strong base from which the player can go on to improve their game.

Also, I did suggest a lesson editor so that the community can create lessons which teach the meta as it changes.

fnr,

kinda man … put the “sport” in e-SPORT

the new UI makes it hand holding

See, I don’t think it does. It helps new people learn what’s happening. For the more experienced, its just a tiny hint which shouldn’t account for much in most cases since experience tells you what you missed anyway (Except for certain characters like Cinder and Omen, I know when I’ve missed lights, mediums or heavies). And since it only happens after an incorrect input, there’s no way to use it as a game-changing advantage unless your opponent keeps repeating the same combo string. If anything, the timer display now actually helps in the counter breaker meta game, making it slightly easier to know when your opponent is able to break again, but that’s not a significant advantage.

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There’s nothing hand-holdy about the new UI. Is the dojo mode hand-holdy because they try to teach you how the game works? I really don’t get where these complaints are coming from.

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The new UI is just the equivalent of replacing the green, yellow, and red traffic lights with the words “Go, Slow, Stop” It doesn’t affect any of us that know what the originals meant and it only helps people that are foreign to the concept but it is in no way hand holding for the driver.

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