The computer......and IG

General Discussion
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Just wanted to come on here to complain about one of the most obvious things IG never cared about(of many), the computer. Why is it that whenever i play the computer, its full on cheat mode for them no matter what? Whatever you input they always perfectly counter it, however perfect your combos are, even all manuals, they always break it, you can’t counter break them, because they instantly cheat and don’t input the breaker they were about to whenever you counter break. I don’t even like counter breaking, I just did it to test how full on cheat mode they turned the computer in to.

I play on ultimate kyle or whatever it is, however all the difficulties do this, just to a lesser degree. How does IG expect anybody to learn to play the game when they literally allow the computer to read every input and instantly counter it. Why not just have the computer have the skills of a top player and just not allow it to read every input and instantly put the counter in? Was that so hard to comprehend for them? Basic common sense. Again, if somebody can do the best combos pretty much on demand, all manuals, mixes, varying strengths on every successive option, etc, how does IG expect a new player to learn against the computer?

Some people, like me, don’t like to play online because most of online, that I’ve encountered are just serious mashers and have no clue what they’re actually doing, playing against that makes you a worse player when you are trying to actually learn the game. Later on once you learn the game you can dumb yourself down to beat those brain dead players however in the beginning it really stunts any fun of actually trying to learn the game.

Don’t get me wrong, I lab mostly, its just whenever I do want to actually play, there isn’t any option, with all the mashing online(most of that thanks to no dojo for each char, computers that cheat and combo assist), and the cheating computer, again all of IG’s glorious lazyness constantly on show. Not only that, but instead of giving us basic things like an online lab so people can actually learn with each other and teach other people, they gave us some pve crap nobody that played KI for KI likes, sure if you like pve good for you, but I certainly didn’t play the best pvp game out there to play some giant pve thing meanwhile all the tools to actually pvp and learn to pvp are no where to be seen.

Thanks IG, the gift that never stops giving, you guys were given an amazing game and barely did anything outside of minor balancing to contribute to it over the years, then complained when people complained about the obvious lack of care shown for their favorite game. All smoke and mirrors, no actual tools to enhance the actual KI experience not to mention all the other cosmetic things missing from the game…

And after spending all that time and money that ms gave them to work on the game, they spent it on PVE, then they just up and leave the game because it failed, no wonder, the giant pve thing didn’t make your pvp game successful, who woulda thought?

I just get sick and tired of people complimenting IG when all they did was smooth over an already great game they were given and basically do nothing else for it over years, then just up and leave it half way done with all the important parts for it to last long, be successful and grow the community missing. Not sorry for the rant, its been long coming for me, however this is mainly about all the important parts about the game that are missing that they obviously showed no care to implement.

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AI reads your inputs in basically every fighting game though. That’s just how it works. They operate on simple “yes or no” logic. Every time you hit them they simply decided to let you hit them. If anything the Shadows in this game is the best step forward fighting game AI has ever taken. It’s just a hassle to find the good ones.

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I wonder why no developer has ever really tried to improve AI in fighting games. Surely there must be a way to program the AI’s reactions and decisions to more closely resemble a human player using frame data. I guess no one thought it was worth attempting?

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I take it the OP creator never played Ultimate MK3 in the arcades…

Fighting game AIs have always been cheap, and honestly they are bad at teaching you anything, as they are predictable.

In KI you can at least fight the Shadows, of which do for the most part mirror a real human’s reactions.

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Stick to shadows, that’s the best fighting game A.I. of all time

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Unless I’m mistaken the core mechanics of the AI haven’t changed since season 1. So if you’re wanting to throw shade at anyone, throw it at Double Helix. IG simply played the hand they were dealt and didn’t do much to change it.
But to reiterate what others have already said, play against Shadows if you want some variety in the AI. That’s what I’ve always done when I don’t want to play online.

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Lol. Why are you guys all responding to yet another troll thread? It’s a completely incoherent rant directed at IG for a combination of things that either are simply not true or else were not the responsibility of IG. It’s posted from an account that is at least not new but has only four previous posts and has not spent any time in the forums, and is filled with exactly the same bizarre distorted worldview and crazy self aggrandizement we should all recognize by now. This person is too good at fighting games to play online. Lol. It’s either a member of the KI cult or a disgruntled former IG employee. Either way you can’t fix stupid. IG, if they’re reading this, are laughing their guts out. They don’t need us to defend them from lunatics.

The guy is talking about KI’s AI without mentioning Shadows - the most realistic and ambitious fighting game AI System ever put into a fighting game. Lol. If he’s ever actually played KI this post is the equivalent of your ex drunk dialing you at 3 am. There should be zero responses to this.

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I’ve actually run into Oki King online a few times. He usually sends me salty messages for beating him. :stuck_out_tongue:

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That’s because you just mash buttons and you are actually makimgmhim worse at the game just by playing against you.

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Playing the AI is the worst thing you can do to improve your game. Play shadows or online only if you want to get better.

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Shush! Don’t give out all my secrets!!!

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Obvious who the troll is here.

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The problem with the shadows is you have to be friends with top players if you wAnt to play against their likeness, otherwise it’s basically online, also I’ve played a lot of computers in fighting games, not all of them are programmed to cheat, least they could of done was let you challenge anybody’s shadow, and even then u have to pay each time, it’s all setup so u can’t learn.

My brother refused to put up with the bs when I was trying to teach him and quit right away as I’m sure many players do because of iron galaxy laziness.

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Literally everything you’ve just said (maybe except the bit about your brother - I don’t know your brother) is factually incorrect. You don’t need to be friends with the top players to play their shadows. All AI reads your inputs. Good luck landing a throw in any MK game against he computer. You can challenge anybody’s shadow.

You don’t seem to have any idea what you’re talking about…

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The vast majority of the OP is nonsense predicated on bad data and lazy assumptions, but I thought this was worth pulling out.

This is a question I’ve seen asked elsewhere, so worth addressing as my computer updates. I think it generally comes from people misunderstanding programming and computer logic at a fundamental level.

For one, “just play like a top player” is a shoddy ruleset, vague to the point of uselessness. Would you like Top Player Justin Wong (lame, solid but not flashy execution, weird clutch), or Top Player Kazunoko (setplay for days, bullying, propensity for DP’s that seem to always hit)? Maybe Top Player Storm179, who breaks very well and as a rule vortexes and resets you into oblivion? Maybe CrazySkateNate, who games the frame data to yield odd links and ambiguous meaties? Not all top players are good for the same reasons; people are complicated, and there are many ways and styles to be good at. Programming those kinds of nuanced and contextualized personalities is not easy from a programming standpoint - human decision-making and game machine logic operate in fundamentally different ways.

A big part of the disconnect is that the computer, unlike a human, does not have imperfect knowledge of the game state. If I miss an anti-air it’s because your jump took me by surprise. It is not physically possible to take a game AI by surprise. It knows exactly when the jump is coming, it knows exactly when and where you will land, and it will know any buttons or specials you decide to press a few milliseconds after you press them. It has access to perfect knowledge at all times, and were it trying its best to beat you it could do so in such an unfair way as to make you weep. That’s obviously a terrible design decision though, and so programmers “handicap” the AI so that it allows you to do stuff that it could easily stop were it so inclined.

There are better and worse ways to achieve this handicapping effect, some that feel pretty good and “natural” (I actually do think KI S1 was better in this regard than later seasons), and some that suck royally (Kyle in every season, MK3 Ultimate, KI easy-mode in all seasons). But it’s always an artificial limiter, because it’s not (and cannot be) you surprising or outthinking your AI opponent; it is the AI deciding “I will be weak to this sequence and allow it to hit X% of the time” or “I will do this move at Y time, and then block/not block after regardless of what opponent does”. Even the best and cheapest FG AI’s will almost invariably have some sequence that can be looped to kill them, because that kind of rigid programming logic isn’t designed to learn or adapt - it’s designed to do a certain number of things at a certain level of proficiency. If you can work your way around the ruleset, then victory becomes trivial. KI’s Shadows mode does a fantastic job of replicating human play, but even it can often be exploited in similar ways if your goal is to try to break the shadow.

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This is the stupidest topic I’ve ever seen. Is this guy serious ??? Lol

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Your post is lazy in assuming I didn’t know that and assuming that’s exactly what I meant, which it obviously wasn’t. I know you know the details of this game storm so spare me the fake naivete. You know the computer is fun to play against when its not cheating instantly against your every input and that there are plenty fg computers that don’t do that and only a few that do and its lazy design that completely ruins the experience, you can easily program it to just play good as it does most of the time without insta cheating like it does.

And even if that was all of a sudden magically hard, as if this is rocket science, yet somehow other fgs do it all the time, there has been tons of time to program all the top players shadows into a super shadow for people to practice against and save such an insurmountable programming venture.

But no, as with all the fake mountains that were too hard to climb by IG, we never got any of those common sense things added, because ‘it was too hard.’ Give me a break, spend endless time and money on shadow lords which only a few people use but you can’t even finish the computer using programming or top players shadows or finish the shadow lab to make it not completely useless to use. What is the point of having shadows if you can only play against them once per day? What…???

“So people don’t gain too many shadow points and cheat the system” is what I’m sure you’d say even though you know all they’d have to do was take the risk/gain out of it and let people actually have an opportunity to learn even though you can already cheat the system by playing all the top winners each day which 90% of aren’t very good players. NOT TO MENTION, you literally have to be friends with top players if you want to play against their shadows and even then its STILL once a day. You also know all of this because your hisako is the 2nd highest win total of hisakos in shadow lab yet you conveniently left all of this out.

Your post is the real lazy thing here because you know all of these things yet you leave them out and don’t address the main points I did in my op, just like IG, it was pure lazyness. Don’t look here, look over there. Everything IG did was half assed. Literally everything, even the balancing they got praised for, KI still has way too much brain dead stuff that shouldn’t be in the game. I can’t think of anything in this game that isn’t half assed, outside of the fighting engine which they got from DH, and the original/s2 chars they also got from DH. Ironically enough a lot of s3 was stealing from already existing things in the game and “adding” them to “new” chars.

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-reads post-
Ok :+1:t5:

Is she? I haven’t logged into Shadows in well over a year, but nice to know she’s been putting in work.
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Here’s my last convo with Oki. :joy:

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This rag guy got issues, I shouldn’t let bad players and trolls get to me, that’s my bad, however you can see how mad they truly are by stalking you online and posting conversations about something completely unrelated, get a life bro.