I am here to post an idea for Aganos pulverize ability mainly because I feel that aganos has a VERY unfair time dealing with crossups as well as just general matchups like Sadira or Riptor. The idea is to change the position of the pulverize depending on strength used. Light pulverize would be in front of aganos with the hitbox being on an angle facing in front of him on the ground and behind him in the air, medium attack would put the hitbox behind him on the ground and above him on the front, and heavy to be on top of him in a helicopter like motion for anti air use only leaving him vulnerable on the ground. This would be to help deal with people that constantly spam jumping attacks in a motion that aganos cant normally deal with. The thing people will bring up is to use shadow natural disaster however not only does the move require meter, if aganos gets crossed up the move will register as shadow ruin instead which (for example in a sadira match up) would lead to not only a waste of meter but a free punish that the opponent does not even deserve. anti air flick is NOT helpful on cross up attacks in the slightest and neither is crouching heavy. The only other anti air option is shadow pulverize but the anti air option is almost a joke as some characters can hit aganos during the shadow animation cancelling it entirely meaning more wasted meter and more frustration. I understand that Aganos needs a disadvantage with air fighting but in many instances the way he is able to fight air combat is completely unreliable and is in my opinion considered a matter of luck whether you get “A” hit for a minor punish vs getting hit into a potential combo for massive damage all because his moves (or more so the hitbox) is just not reliable. Like I said i understand that aganos needs disadvantages but I feel as if his disadvantages should not be because of mechanics that can lead to feeling cheated in a match. I should not feel cheated for trying to use shadow natural disaster and instead getting a different move because aganos was facing the wrong direction when the input was made. If the change was made to his pulverize it would be almost rectified as then players can actually provide better anti air options while still leaving enough room for error so that the opponent can outsmart it and punish accordingly. As well it should not hinder aganos’s move set too much as I found that almost no player would use medium or heavy pulverize since the light version is not only the fastest but has the same opener opportunities and leaves aganos with the best frames when blocked and not to mention the most strict time for shadow countering. Thanks for taking the time to check out the thread if you all agree please let me know and if you don’t, put in what you think aganos needs to rectify the issue of dealing with anti air.
Block is an option,
So you want me to block crossups all day with no ability to punish accordingly or consistently?
Keep in mind aganos has no get away move. His dash is horrible and if he has no chunks then he cant use ruin or natural disaster to get away without punish.
How bout this if your going to try and take that whole post and try to write it off with 4 stupid words with no thought then just don’t post at all. I am not interested.
If one of your big issues is that your inputs are getting crossed up then changing the properties of an attack isn’t going to help. You’re still just going to get your input crossed up and not get the attack you wanted regardless of if they change it.
Block the first cross up and anti-air the next. I don’t see how changing the direction of pulverize doing anything. You said it is unfair that shadow natural disaster turns into shadow ruin if it is the wrong side. Wouldn’t the same be for pulverize? Also reversing your input to make it work with the cross up is an option.
That is where the heavy pulverize would come in tho Granted it should still require a chunk to perform as most characters are in an attack animation during the crossup, but my idea of having the motion be directly above aganos giving him not only a consistent anti air, but a chance to get away if needed. Just having that one extra option would help in so many ways and just having the ability to combat an attempted crossup is all I really ask for. I know the nature of crossups however I feel that aganos is much more vulnerable to them than the rest of the cast. He just needs that one option to help him if only to have something somewhat consistent to use compared to moves that either miss most of the time or don’t come out fast enought to hit the opponent.
most second attempts to crossup will immediately hit aganos before his moves have a chance to come out because he is so large. Not to mention his anti air in general as it is now is inconsistent and rather limited without meter you could perform the attack and still get hit into a full punish as well think if you were fighting sadira with here ability to jump in either direction. I am not saying it should be possible for a move to register properly all the time on a crossup. But the ability to combat it should simply be enhanced if anything as aganos is way more vulnerable to crossups and air attacks in general especially on wake up compared to every other character.
His anti-air options being inconsistent is intentional. From what I am seeing,you don’t like his weaknesses. His defense without chunks is meant to be weak. That is the way he was made. Plus how would pulverize having a different angle help with cross ups anyway? Literally no difference. You would still do the wrong move because the input is reversed. Just reverse your input if they cross up.
I said i understood his weaknesses however if I block a crossup just to get attacked by another crossup with no proper punish opportunity that shows a problem for me. And if pulverize was made so that the heavy version attacked in a horizontal motion (like a helicoptor) it would make it so that jumping around him is not a great idea. Sadira players do this all the time to pick his chunks off while aganos has no real proper way of fighting it leaving him open the rest of the match or until he gets lucky with meter. as well if the move was reversed it would result in him doing heavy chunk toss which tosses the chunk up in the air which would serve some anti air property compared to other options. and if it would serve no difference then what harm would there be in trying because as I said before there is almost no reason to use the medium or heavy variations of pulverize
The difference is between having it and being able to combat a crossup 50/50 is better than not having it and being at almost a complete loss of what to do without having shadow meter.
But the shadow version is already anti cross up. Just block till you get meter. In fact,the change would be the same thing as what you have now. Do the pulverize. They try to cross up but gets hit by the upward angle in the back. Also there is a reason to use the other versions. Light version only becomes easy to shadow counter. His anti-air options suck. Sadira happens to be a very good air character. Or you can just take the hit with a chunk and punish.
As i mentioned in the thread the shadow pulverize is inconsistent and if attacked at the right angle can be hit and cancel the attack all together leaving you with the punishment AND the wasted meter. Medium and heavy pulverize are slower and easier to counter and are less safe only doing a difference in damage which Aganos isn’t focused on when doing a combo to begin with.
And the helicopter change if attacked at the right angle can be hit as well.
Im not asking for a 100% just a simple improvement for better options. so your saying you want the only option to be the one that costs meter AND can cheat you if hit just right?
Because here are the characters that can hit it.
Orchid (pretty sure)
Omen (though that one is obvious since he can phase through it)
So basically over half the cast and those are the ones where I saw it happen to me
I havent tested the other characters yet
Not entirely sure I get what you’re suggesting anymore. Changing the angle of the attack would literally still have every single problem Aganos currently has with the shadow version. You’d still get your input mixed up. You’d still get hit out of it without chunks. Yet you seem to think it would be an improvement or a better option, why?
Remove the meter cost and at least have a chance to get an attack out to prevent the constant jumps. there would be no additional stuff to add to it just the ability to fight it and get away if necessary like I said the option is having a move you can use for potential AA normally that could work and give you a second to breath vs one that costs meter and has the same chance. The question I am wondering is why there is so much resistance to the idea here. If it wouldn’t make much of a difference then why not implement it (or have them try it) in trials because I don’t see any harm here if the pulverize was changed.
As well the heavy pulverize would strictly be anti air with the hitbox hitting up high leaving him vulnerable on the ground. The medium version would attack from behind and the light would attack from the front. each would have their own distinct disadvantages to using and would give a good reason to use the different strengths for pulverize instead of just the light version.
Jago’s dp input can be reversed. Glacius puddle punch,orchid’s dp,Sadira recluse,etc. I am really confused. So what if other characters can counter it. Aganos isn’t them.
The difference is that they have options to get out (dashing better AA etc) Aganos is stuck right where he is until he can get a hit and even then it doesnt buy him much time. Getting a hit with shadow pulverize does not mean that Aganos is ok. It does not cause a hard knockdown meaning that by the time its done the opponent is back on their feet ready to attack again meaning you have to make another read just to get 1 opportunity to chunk up. As well I keep admitting that aganos NEEDS a weakness even after they nerfed the armor in S3 I believed air was to be his weakness as well as up close encounters. But to try to punish with a SHADOW ANTI AIR/Throw invulnerable attack and still get hit into a full combo and if blocked is the easiest to shadow counter in the entire game (since you can counter it at any hit in the shadow), I find that is going to far.
That would be the heavy version yes. and the medium version would be the opposite direction to the 1st picture
some tweaks would be needed to make sure grounded characters would not get hit or do be able to duck or do a low profile attack for larger characters but in general this is what I am looking for
also I do not look for the attack to be able to lead into any extra setups for the sake of balance.
As an Aganos main, and a rather good 1 at that, I really don’t think your idea is really all that necessary (although, even I’ll admit that I’ve entertained such ideas in the past).
Here’s the thing - don’t let them cross you up to begin with. If you’re letting them get that close to you, then you’re also asking to be hit with a fast multi-hitting attack, a heavy grounded normal, or a thow - none of which I’m sure you want.
What you need to do is always keep them at half screen distance, where many of their attacks won’t do them any good (and where your anti-airs are most effective). That way, if they jump in, you can LP, LP, MP, HP, HP, HK, M. or H.payload assault (or even S.payload assault if there’s enough distance), pulverize (any), S.ruin (with proper timing,and hopefully, a wall or 2), LP with peacemaker, MP with peacemaker, HP with peacemaker, natural disaster, or S.natural disaster (and hold) for a recapture to your heart’s content.
If you find yourself backing into a corner, by your own doing, wait and see what they do. If they jump, well, I’ve already told you what you can do above. If they try to move in while on the ground, such as with a dash, you can poke them in a myriad of ways using most of your normals, as well as most of your specials (also recogize this as a prime time to set up a wall behind them) to discourage them from trying it too much - and if you’re lucky, you’ll open them up in the process and set yourself up for more chunks, a mixup opportunity, a way to switch sides, or even put them through a potential wall-crash for massive damage.
You’re talking about the golem’s weakness, when in reality, you should be using EVERYONE ELSE’s weakness against him for your benefit.
If you’d like some practice, I’d be more than happy to help.