Suggestion for Aganos pulverize abitlity for better anti air option

I would love to play sometime.

However I have played with aganos for a very long time (long enough that he SHOULD be my main instead of Fulgore). And I understand his gameplay completely, however this is something that I felt needed to be brought up as the annoyance of dealing with select characters can ruin the fun as bad matchups can do for any fighting game. I look to try and balance the matchups to a 5/5 scenario as much as possible instead of being left at a large disadvantage. I do so not for the sake of making my play easier to win but to make the game as a whole more interesting and rely less on counter picking. It is clear that as of recently (especially in tournament) that counter picking is becoming a problem in Killer Instinct as people will pick characters with very distinct advantages to help win games besides what I feel is the intended method to win in KI which is skill and psychology. As well I feel as if each characters ability needs to be useful no matter the strength used and while aganos has reason to use any strength of ruin, natural disaster, and payload assualt; he does not have a reason to use different strengths of pulverize besides the light version. Not only is the light version the fastest and therefore the “hardest” to shadow counter but the frame data puts aganos at (from light version to heavy) -2,-3,-5 meaning the only version that should be used would be light to help avoid punish and save chunks. if the change was implemented to the directions of where pulverize hitbox was then not only would it give aganos a bit more assistance WITHOUT being an easy punish on the opponent (if implemented properly) but would also give players incentive to use the different strengths of the move.
The hitboxes for each strength would be clearly defined and be used to punish specific actions especially characters that jump at you constantly. The best example of which would be riptor and her Jumping heavy attack which is a 3 hit attack. Aganos has a VERY distinct disadvantage here because even if he performs the anti air attack riptor will still hit aganos forcing him to lose chunks of armor while riptor receives very little punish damage in return so there is no major reason for Riptor to not keep jumping at aganos all the time using jumping heavy until his chunks are gone leaving him with almost no chance of recovery against riptors mix up game and range. matchups like these are apparent with other characters too (such as Kan-Ra vs RAAM) where the match is clearly in favor of a certain character and I know there is not much that can be done to remedy such situations entirely but some ideas need to be brought up and tested to help make the balance all the better for both sides to make the game not only more polished but a much less frustrating and more fun experience for both sides as well

In regards to Riptor, I just block her :arrow_up:HP and punish with a LK or :arrow_down:LK.

Its funny you bring that up because I tried that before and that leads to me getting fire in my face so that’s a very interesting point

I have to update the list of characters that can hit aganos shadow pulverize from mid air.
ALL the season 1 characters
TJ
Maya
Kan Ra
Riptor
Omen
Cinder
Aria
Tusk
Arby
Rash
Mira
Gargos
Eyedol

I have to test the remaining 3 characters in the cast
Nice to know that if I want to keep people out of the air and give me some breathing room I can always rely on that to get me punched in the face for being so stupid as to think aganos has ANY form of defense against that sort of thing

So to clarify I cant rely on shadow pulverize, I cant rely on Shadow ruin because the recovery is so large that all it does is put me on the other side of the screen to get hit from and if it’s blocked by some weird miracle that seems to keep happening more and more as of recently I get punished anyway. I cant rely on shadow natural disaster because the startup is such that I would get hit before the move ever came out to begin with and even if it comes out the recapture can be unreliable meaning just more wasted meter. So
 That means my options for dealing with ANY form of mid air combat with no chunks is
what? Knowing how things are with aganos YOU WILL lose your chunks at some point against competent players so then what do you do then.

There’s nothing wrong with the startup of shadow natural disaster. It’s more than fast enough to catch virtually every jump in the game, because it has 4 frames of startup, which also beats out most attacks in the game (there are a few exceptions) and 0 frames after the freeze (meanining if they have’t done anything by then, they’re going to get hit).

Sure, the timing can be hard to get the recapture (that part’ll take practice) but that’s why being able to hold the move makes it so great. When you perform the inputs for the s.ND, simply hold the 2 kick buttons. It works wonders for getting the correct timing. I use it all of the time! The best part is that it lowers Aganos’’ hitbox and is projectile invulnerable during the hold (meaning Riptor’s fire can’t hit you).

The only downside is that you can’t hold s.ND forever, as there’s an auto-release (that tension’s gotta go somewhere) that basically forces you to let the move go, whether you want it to or not (also, it’s worth noting that the hold adds 3 frames to your startup, post-freeze). If you want to discourage jumping, this is easily 1 of your best tools. Learn it (in practice mode against various characters with different jump speeds) use it, love it!

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make light pulverize opener only hit once like most of the cast openers

It probably wouldn’t do any good for Aganos, but imagine what it would be like if light pulverize in neutral, when hitting an airborne opponent, caused a flip-out AND a grounded cross-up (in that, as it hits them out of the air, it also causes them to switch sides). :slight_smile:

Due his bad mix up game, a flipout its not a big deal for Aganos

down lk and down mp should hit low
only down hk on the second hit hits low

Regarding your 1st point
 No, it’s not going to happen - I myself asked Keits in person at CEO if they would give Aganos additional low attacks. His answer was simply, “never; he’s fine as he is.”

Regarding your 2nd point
 You’re wrong; his c.HP w/peacemaker also hits low. :wink:

He doesn’t need another low. Aganos threaths you with armored normals, damaging wall break setups, the longest throw range among all characters, an untechable throw which can lead to huge damage, a good cross up


And the list still goes up. He doesn’t need another low because he has amazing tools which makes him not need another low.

Look at Arbiter. He only has a low. Do you think he needs more?

Op’s argument assumes the idea that aganos is chunkless when he is being crossed up. In this situation, aganos isn’t being punished for having bad anti cross up tools, but from losing his chunks to begin with.

Many characters have situations like this. Sadiras strength is in the air. So what do you do when you fight one? Ground her. Don’t let her up there. If you knock her down as aganos, harass her on wake up she has nothing to deal with it (especially if you are chunked up) except use a shadow that you can block or punish.

Honestly, i feel like you’re entering the phase in your fighting game career where you appreciate how important spacing is. Someone mentioned earlier but, if they are in crossup range, that’s on you for letting them get in there. Aganos has more than enough tools to keep people at mid range, i feel like you’re gonna have to get the match ups down better so you know how/when to prevent characters going in on you.

so so true. Truly understanding which normals to use on blocking opponents for spacing/pushback is definitely a goal when playing aganos. And of course, stomping the ground like a tantrum throwing child keeps folks in check pretty well, given you still mixup stomping rhythm.