I meant relevant in that it effects them as the buyers. Having their favorite character in the game is relevant to them.
Why are they out of place? So you’re saying Namco isn’t using Tira to entice buyers in to purchasing the season pass? What else do we know about the season pass that I’m not aware of that would make that an out of place adjective?
Yes, she will be available to buy separately on the same day as the rest of the game. You honestly have no problem with that? Why don’t they do the same with Zasalamel? Or Seong Mi Na or any of the other characters on the roster for that matter?
I tend to hate slippery slope arguments, but publishers have been pushing the boundaries of what players are willing to accept for years now because prices remain flat, so it’s not horribly crazy to assume that if they can get away with some day one DLC, who’s to say they can’t chop off other parts of the game and sell it on day one as well?
How do you know that’s the actual choice? That’s not a rhetorical question, btw. People seem to assume that this game is being done on some sort of shoe-string budget and I have yet to see anything indicating this to be the case.
Are you really telling me that the choice is definitely between paying separate for Tira or they can’t afford to make her at all? It’s certainly a possibility, but you seem to sound so certain that’s the case and that the other choice scenario is untrue and I’m kinda curious as to how you arrived at that conclusion.
How so? Fighting games with substantial rosters have been coming out for years, including the recent past where games have been at their most expensive. Mortal Kombat X, Injustice 2, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Smash Ultimate… Capcom’s struggling and they have been for a while, but even they released MvCI with a base roster of 30 characters.
If Soul Calibur VI were being handled by Arika, I’d understand. Or if Namco was trying to experiment the way MS did with KI and how it was made and released, I know enough about that format now to understand the benefits and drawbacks as a player.
But this is Namco we’re talking about. Tekken 7 had 36 characters at launch. Even if SC isn’t as popular as Tekken (which I know, it’s not), you’re telling me it’s SO much less popular that they need to list a character that’s ready on day one separately as paid DLC the day the game comes out?
I don’t know, but that seems a bit far-fetched to me.
Eh, depends on who you ask. Tira’s a bit of a fan favorite to some. I’m also not sold on the idea that people should just be grateful to get something at all if they don’t like the way it’s being sold.
Do I think Capcom had passable version of Sagat, who just released a week or so ago ready (on some level) on February 16, 2016 when SFV first launched? I kinda doubt it, but I suppose anything’s possible.
It’s not that she’s DLC. That’s not the issue. It’s that she’s day one DLC. It’s that she’s completed and ready on the same day the game comes out. She’s in the game on day one if you buy her. Namco made a choice not to put her in the game with the rest of the characters. I don’t see how you can dispute that when it’s purely factual information.
I can assume they’re able to make that choice and still make money off of their season pass, just as you can assume she was only made to be DLC and there’s no possible way they could afford to create her unless they charged money for her separately, but I don’t know if either of those are 100% right. We just don’t know. Personally, and I know you’ll disagree, I find my assumption to be more logical than yours.
It’s not a fallacy. We don’t know how much the season pass will be, but what if it’s $30? What if it’s half the price of the full game and the value’s simply not there. It might not mean as much for you or me, but there are fans who might see that as a tougher decision.
It’s not just a matter of “if you don’t have the money, then pound sand.” It’s a matter of good public relations and doing right by your fanbase. This isn’t about just really really wanting something, therefore it should be free. I’m not advocating for that, otherwise I’d say all their DLC should be free. It’s not like there aren’t games out there that have free DLC.
But Namco could at least try and adhere to more recent established norms. You have a base game, maybe a preorder bonus, and then you have a DLC season. You don’t just put a character that could be in the game out there on the same day and charge a separate amount. I mean you can, but that doesn’t mean you should, and I think enough people on Twitter were telling them that they didn’t think this was right.
Oh stop it, you know what the base game is. It’s everything that comes out on day one. It’s the initial roster. If this were KI and it had seasons from the get go, you might be able to get away with this philosophical “what is a game” stuff, but no. This is a full price, $60 retail game.
It’s not that simple though. People want to buy the game, but they don’t like the way the company’s going about selling it in this particular instance. So sure, they could be angry enough to speak with their wallets and just not buy it. But I don’t get the impression that most fans want to treat Namco that way and I also think they actually want to buy the game and help support it.
So either you cut your nose off to spite your face or what, give them your hard earned money and shut up? That’s not a great way for capitalism to work. I’m not one for speaking to the manager, or setting my hair on fire on Twitter, but sometimes there has to be a conversation between the buyer and the seller. It doesn’t always have to involve screaming and online petitions and what not, but if you don’t like the way a company’s handling a specific thing, I don’t see anything wrong with telling them.
How so? I know we disagree on the false choice aspect here, but if Tira’s available on day one, then I think it’s reasonable to assume she could’ve existed without Namco having to charge for her. I know you think she wouldn’t exist otherwise, but if we go by my logic, the baggage here is an extra $5 to get a character. That’s not nothing.
How so? Game reviews are done on the base game. The base game is the main time period in which people evaluate whether the content is worth the cost. It’s all we have to go on at launch. Sure, a game can be vastly improved over the next year or so. Bugs can be fixed, more content added, etc. But for a game you’re actually looking forward to, you’re most likely purchasing it well before any of that happens, hence the base game is what people have to go on.
You can absolutely do that if you want. The tradeoff there is that if you release a bare-bones, glitch filled experience, how likely is it that people will want to stay in your game world and spend money in it, or buy DLC when it comes out?
It depends on what the sets are. Most people are used to the sets being doled out in specific ways. Right now, it’s popular for season passes to start churning out content in a time that’s a bit more reasonable than the day the game is released. The general assumption tends to be that the parts being released later aren’t complete on day one.
But even if that’s false, even if, let’s say Netherealm has every DLC pack for Injustice 2 completely done when they first launch the game, fans don’t know that. Why would they even assume it? If everything’s available, then just release it all day one as paid DLC. Why not? Because people would be angry, that’s why. If they had 12 characters on day one as DLC, people would raise hell. The SC community seems much more measured due to the fact that it’s just one character.
Honestly, and I know you’ll agree, but it helps people feel like they’re not having to pay more for a game than they should. Even if that’s an illusion, it’s one that I think some still need.
I’d rather they not do it at all, but if they have to, then yeah, I think it’s better for fans that they not know about it, because I don’t think they’d like the alternative.
This isn’t some god ordained thing. The game gets released on its release day and that’s the base game. You can decide that has no meaning all you want, that doesn’t make it true.
How is extra an arbitrary distinction? If Tira’s done by the time the game comes out and she releases the same day, yet I have to pay five more dollars beyond the sixty I already paid, explain to me how that’s not extra. Tell me how 65 is not more than 60.
Is it because I could spend that 5 later? I’m not talking about later. I’m talking about the day one product.
Now we’re talking about Namco going under if they don’t sell us Tira for $5?
Look, I’ll just once more reiterate that there are relatively well established norms on what constitutes a completed game on day one, and charging money for a character that comes out the same day as the larger product itself goes against that norm for some people. You’re clearly not one of them, and that’s fine. But I disagree with you on that and I’ve stated why, even if you think I’m making nonsense arguments.
BTW, it might not be the worst idea to take this to PM if you want to keep talking about this. If you’re done with it, that’s obviously fine. But even though it’s relevant to the topic, I’m sure most don’t want to scroll through thesegiant posts we’re leaving here, but whatever you prefer is fine with me. 
