I can’t be alone when I say that it’s irritating to deal with players that constantly use the grenade as a almost sure fire way to either get a command throw or get a full combo if I try to jump. But with if, and bare with me here, Arbiter’s plasma grenades acted a bit like spinal’s skulls in the sense that if he gets hit the grenade will disappear? I know that this’ll mean that Arbiter players will have to find a new way to open up players but believe me when I say that he has more than enough tools to take care of it. This has been floating around in my mind for quite sometime and I was wondering what the rest of the community has to say about my idea.
Most good Arby players will use 'nades post-throw, juggle, or ender, so your idea doesn’t change much since you’ll still be vulnerable to mixups and combo resets.
Should nades become EZ breakers?
As with most new tech, it seems hard to deal with because you just haven/t considered all of your options yet.
There is one defensive option that most people dont seem to realize is a great idea against an Arbiter grenade:
The projectile is a danger to both players, so when you are stuck with a grenade, your best option is to make sure it hits HIM too.
If you make an offence, and it is successful, either drop the combo and start blocking, which will bring you both back to “neutral”, Or If it fails, keep him in a frame-trap until it is about to detonate, then block, which will bring you both back to “neutral”. And every now and then, you will get lucky, and they will NOT block, allowing you to get a full combo from their own grenade.
They dont need to block. They can just yolo and fish for long range normals into combo. If you try to hit them and they hit you instead they get a free combo, if you managed to hit them you are in neutral because nade is a free combo breaker and you need to block. This is not a viable solution. I think they should give arby 2 nades instead. Nades regenerate so fast it looks like they dont have a nade limit
Specials beat normals. If you make a successful hit, you get a little bit of free damage, and then a chance to reset both players to “neutral”. That is a pretty good situation considering you also spend your opponents resources with no real bad effects on you.
But while you try to get some damage(like %8) they have a chance to hit you first and arbys everything launches and nade will regenerate anyway during this time. Its not a resource if its unlimited with a 10 sec reg penalty with 2 more slots. even if you throw all your generades in a sequence you will have at least 1 more ready and half more to get another anyway. And also arby has a shield and no other good uses for meter. He can just shield if you try to attack then its impossible for you to make situation netural. Its a gamble that favors arby every time no matter what.
You have a VERY disillusioned view of Arbiter.
If you counter hit his offense and get a quick 1-chance-break combo, you get much more than 8% and get a chance to block the grenade for free.
His grenades take a very long time to regenerate, and they are avoidable. So if you just dodge them, then you wouldnt have to deal with the situation in the first place.
The shield gives him more health, and gives him Projectile Armor. If you hit him Physically, it is no different than hitting him without the sheld.
Arby does not automatically win if you get stuck with a grenade. If you make sure to be close to Arbiter when the grenade goes off, then whatever happens to you will also happen to him. That is how you make the situation “Neutral”. The only way Arbiter’s greandes DONT affect himself, is if he is in a grab animation, or has a shield on. THAT is why hitting him is a good idea, because if you get a successful hit, you will remove his shield and make sure that you dont get hit with the grenade.
Most projectiles hit you and immediately give you damage, but Arbiters projectiles are different. The dont immediately give you damage, instead they take away some of your options, and scare you. That is why Arbiter gets to do free attacks afterward. But if you are NOT Scared, and you make sure that the grenade hits HIM ALSO, then the grenade becomes useless.
If you stay close to him he can absorb nade with shield or just throw you. If you are far and you block to let nade explode he can command grab you. and if arby doesnt use command grab at the last second you cant punish him. And he always have option to just let you jump( to avoid command grab ) or do overhead/low mixup(if you have nade on you he has a mixup) Arby has alot of options with little holes in them… And you cant dodge a generade if he doesnt throw it at to you. Why would he throw nades at you while he can use them after combos to pressure you
Thats another option arby has. He CAN fish for a hit and if he hits you he gets combo with good timing. But also he CAN just block and just before nade explodes he can mixup you since you are close to deal damage to him. Or throw you into another nade. BUT If you manage to hit arby anyway you are in neutral
Everything you just said is solved if you just hit him.
Just hit him.
A successful combo, a successful throw, or a well timed block will completely cancel the grenade, and will sometimes give you a free combo.
I am done posting about this.
Well what if you couldnt hit him? He gets combo or pressure
What if you hit him? its neutral or arby is plus because he can backdash bedore nade explodes and you have to block. And he can just charge in again with a good timing or give you another nade before previous one explodes.
Im done posting about this.
Tell that to Arby’s carbine shots. If anything I think those are the real threats, especially in neutral, where they’ll do more damage. They’re so lightning fast and hard to avoid…
I figured it was self explanatory that i was talking about his Grenades in that quote.
i usually check myself on that, but of course the one time i slip-up, someone has to say something.
(That sounds really mean when i re-read it. I dont mean any offence by it.)
I knew what you were referring to. I was just taking advantage of the way you worded it to create a lead into his other projectiles, which I do think is a more serious threat.
Your “what if you can’t hit him” applies to every single character in every single MU in the game. If you cannot hit your opponent, or if his defensive reads are so godlike that your every attempt to land a touch on him ends with you getting combo’d, then you are going to lose, and that is the end of that.
All the defensive options Arbiter has while you have a grenade stuck to you, he also has when he doesn’t have a grenade stuck to you. If you can hit him in pure neutral, then you should be able to hit him when you have a grenade on you. Unless Arbiter has a shield on deck he has to respect the grenade as much as you do, and I don’t know what Arbiter’s you’re fighting, but there are PLENTY of times when you should be stuck and Arbiter doesn’t have an overshield. His normal grab range also sucks, for the record, and if he’s just fishing with normal then your specials will beat that out.
Grenade is a very potent “mixup” tool - it’s supposed to be. But it is not unbeatable or ridiculously overpowered, and @MrxFlutterShy has the right idea for how to combat it. Grenade is most powerful when you respect it too much and give Arbiter the space to mix you up how he pleases - a lot of times the right answer to being stuck is simply to go in extra hard.
Yep, if you’re gonna go down, you might as well take him with you.
The problem here is arby has advantage and TONS of options when he has generade on you. He can full yolo and be safe he can just jump back and if you follow(or ‘attack’) he can shoot you with rifle and make you vulnerable for generade explosion. Whatever he does when he has nade on you he is advantageous. Simply attacking doesnt counter nades. And “what if you cant hit him” doesnt apply to any character but arby in this case. Non of them have a timed bomb sticked on you which would make the situation unfavorable for you if you cant avoid it. We are talking about nades. focus pls.
As was said before, having a grenade on you doesn’t make it safe for him. You can still full-on attack like you could as if the grenade wasn’t there. Sure the grenade might stop your combo short, but that’s why you either use it to have it also hit Arby, putting you both back into neutral, with no advantage, or you stop your combo early (say a 1 chance break with a hard knockdown or juggle ender) to give you time to then block the exploding grenade while Arby recovers from the hard knockdown/juggle.
You can also grab arbiter to negate the effect of the grenade. Like people have stated before the key is being offensive arbiter’s grenade interrupts himself.