Setups Thread

Characters General RAAM
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Share what you got here. If raam’s biggest untapped source of potential is going to be his really good mixups then we’re gonna have to start sharing since I haven’t seen anything new since infil made his character page

Back throw > buffered whiffed jab > instant jump forward is a left right mixup on a decent amount of the cast, with j hp landing in front and j lk crossing up. It’s not a safe jump and on some characters youll still land in front with lk, but others like fulgore will his dp whiff if you go for the lk, letting you punish. You’ll have to adjust it accordingly for some characters but its there.

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Is there not already a tech thread in every character sub-forum? Why not just use that instead? Also, sorry for being off-topic.

In regards to tech, it’s not really tech, I don’t think, but I’ve never failed to hit with a c.MK after a successful kryll charge. :slight_smile:

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So I’m getting back into the game and finally decided to just buckle down and find good set ups against the entire cast. I’m gonna test on every character with every knockdown raam has on every position on the stage, etc. I’ll post any goodness I come across on here.
Results after night one with Jago:

Midscreen Forward throw > Non-buffered M.Stab > Forward Jump > j.LK. Hits in front on standing Jago, behind on crouching Jago. Stuffs DPs or makes them whiff. (Stuffs reversal medium DP, makes delayed medium DP whiff, heavy DP will always whiff, light DP will work as reversal, will whiff if late.) Catches backdash attempts. Stuffs everything else Jago has. Only escapes are reversal light DP and forward dash.

Midscreen Forward throw > Buffered M.Stab > Forward Jump > j.LK. Always hits behind. Crosses up inputs so if Jago wants to DP the input must be reversed. Catches backdashes. Only escapes are reverse input DP and forward dash.

What’s good about those first two is that they look almost identical, the timing difference between a buffered M.Stab and a non-buffered M.Stab is so small that I don’t think anyone that isn’t familiar with doing the set up themselves will be able to tell. So even if the Jago wants to try and DP you he’ll have to take a guess as to whether to do light DP or reverse DP. And while forward dash will escape both set ups you simply have to replace the jumping LK with jumping HP to catch them behind you, that way even though there is an escape option they have to keep guessing as to whether or not to take it.

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This is a really interesting thread. I appreciate the time spent looking for these mixups. Never knew j.LK could cross-up. Will try these out in the morning and see if I have anything to add.

-@franciscapra aka SE1Z3

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You absolute madman. [quote=“SithLordEDP, post:3, topic:15742”]
Midscreen Forward throw > Non-buffered M.Stab > Forward Jump > j.LK. Hits in front on standing Jago, behind on crouching Jago. Stuffs DPs or makes them whiff. (Stuffs reversal medium DP, makes delayed medium DP whiff, heavy DP will always whiff, light DP will work as reversal, will whiff if late.) Catches backdash attempts. Stuffs everything else Jago has. Only escapes are reversal light DP and forward dash.
[/quote]

This.

THISSSSSSS.

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I think I found a buggy set up.

Light Command Grab > Whiff st.MK > Take half a step forward > Jump forward > j,LK.
If Jago does Heavy DP, it whiffs. If Jago does medium DP, it whiffs. However, if Jago tries to do a light DP it will never come out. I tried the input forward, I tried reversing it, I tried doing it after an instinct cancel, I tried intentionally going for laser sword input, I tried mashing the stick at both corners like a mad man. Either light DP doesn’t have invincibility or something is up.

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I found a bunch of setups for RAAM last night.

His OTG is a hard knockdown and leads to a bunch of different setups. All of these build off of the same setup tools and are tight, so they don’t require delay frames or anything. As you’ll notice, these contain fake stomps and whiffed stomps, so you might accidentally bait out a medium break, which might instead become a wakeup button, which will get blown up. I actually had to draw up a block diagram to show the ones I’ve found:

Pasted image2578×1364 505 KB

Option 1A is probably the best. It’ll combo on jump and backdash, and will keep you +2 on block. The only issue is that after you link a St.HP, your opener becomes breakable with a 50/50 medium/light guess. If you play your combos aggressively, that’s not such a bad thing for RAAM. If you know your opponent knows that it’s breakable, do a light one into a heavy autodouble to confirm a lockout.

Option 1B covers the same options, but leaves you -1 on block (not bad for RAAM) and takes you straight into a combo with an easy manual of any strength, so it’s probably better than 1A when you’re in Instinct or on an Ultra. You might be able to modify this slightly to out-prioritize light DPs, like Tusk’s and Cinder’s. Also, Option 1A might lose to some low invulnerable moves that this one won’t.

Option 1C is slightly worse because it doesn’t combo on a jumper, though you still have a good chance of hitting the stab if they hold up for too long. This is for when your opponent recognizes the whiffed St.MK as a command grab setup. You could do a slightly different setup that will combo on a jumper, but not catch backdash.

Option 2 is the payoff setup. If you’ve been landing Option 1, then your opponent doesn’t want to jump or backdash, which is great for a command grab character. Does great damage, leads into another setup. If you do this setup twice after an HKD ender (which adds Kryll), you’re doing about 55-60% damage.

Option 3 is specifically for meterless, 3-5 frame, single-hitting DPs. Sadly, Fulgore’s DP hits 3 times, but it’s ok because the rest of his toolset is obviously lacking. You could conceivably just hold the charge a bit longer for slower DPs like Cinder and Glacius, but you open yourself up to getting beaten by jumps, throws, etc… You can probably catch some backdashes or slow-to-react opponents that block.

Option 4 is unblockable and flipout. The unblockable is ok, but it’s pretty obvious and backdash will beat it. I guess you could use it to bait a backdash, but whatever you do afterwards isn’t going to be a tight setup, since you can dash at any time. Finally, flipout is good when you’ve made your opponent worry about every other setup here. However, I fully expect most players to just keep using it as their main mixup.

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So to clarify this chart, after a command grab ( or any knockdown opportunity I guess) you do st.MK and then you can go into these various options depending on what you wanna go for. A lot of these lose to DP, so theoretically if you hunt for safejump setups you can force respect and open the door to go to town with these options. I don’t play Raam but this got me curious so I did some minor poking around.

After hitting the OTG st.MK, you can immediate forward dash, neutral jump j.MK for a safejump on some characters. I didn’t test everyone, only a few random characters, might investigate more if I have free time, but this might give some people ideas.
Works on: Sabrewulf, Thunder with no meter (not like his DP is invincible anyway), Cinder with no meter. Other reversals that happen to be fairly slow (TJ comes to mind, and Glacius) would probably work also. Testing this stuff is kinda tricky, because the frame data seems unreliable. Thunder and Maya’s shadow DPs both are listed as having the same startup, but as Jago I can safejump Thunder after a sweep but Maya I cannot. This means you’d probably have to just systematically test the entire cast, which takes some time. And for Thunder and Cinder’s metered DPs, I’m sure you could find a way to safejump those here too, but they’d either require a different way to time it (whiffing a button maybe. I tried a lot of them but was unsuccessful) or just having to time it yourself by delaying your jump.

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Yeah, what’s great about his OTG setups is that you can get them off of throw, command grab, sweep, heavy Emergence wakeup, and medium Emergence anti-air (no quick-rise only).

I hadn’t delved into safe jumps, so that’s great that you found something. Option 3 on my chart is there for DPs, but it works best on 3-5 frame DPs like Jago, Tusk, and Eyedol. It doesn’t work on Shadow wakeups, which safe jumps will mostly beat.

One thing to look out for, though, is that most Shadow DPs have incorrect in-game frame data. They’re usually faster than listed. I found that Maya’s and Kim Wu’s wakeup can’t be safe jumped because they both hit on frame 5, which is one frame faster than the safe jump cutoff. Also, Rash’s wakeup hits on frame 3. I think I remember Sabrewulf’s and TJ’s wakeups hitting one frame faster than listed (unless they’ve fixed the frame data since then).

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I found an another weird setup like this that has different properties against different characters.

Light command grab > F+MK > Cr.MP > Jump forward > J.LK

Against Jago:

-Hits in front BUT light, medium,heavy DPs will all whiff. Shadow DP will hit once.

Against Orchid:

-Hits behind, stuffs heavy, medium DP. Loses to light and Shadow DP, BUT all DPs have to be input in reverse.

Against Sabrewulf/Riptor:

-Crosses up, BUT in order to block it, you have to block the wrong way. Blocking cross up will result in a hit (shown below).

-Wakeups will face the original direction, so Shadow Eclipse (facing the wrong way) gets blocked, Shadow Clever Girl whiffs, Shadow Tail Flip gets stuffed.

This setup is stronger if you also know this one:

Light command grab > F+MK > St.HP > Jump forward > J.HP or J.MK

J.HP will cross up, J.MK will hit in front, both with the same timing.

Sadly, spacing changes for bigger characters.

Side note: during this process, I also found a weird behavior. If you hold up+forward directly out of the recovery frames of St.HP, or St.HK, your jump moves you further forward than if you didn’t hold it. Doing so with St.HP will move you 1/8 of a floor box further forward than normal, 1/16 of a box for St.HK.

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This is very interesting stuff. Have you found any setups off of his heavy grab? I don’t think I’ve seen anything apart from standing MK meaty (which granted, is really strong), but there has to be more you can do afterwards.

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While these are good setups, it’s probably better to adjust to the timing and then not do those precursor moves anymore, as they help telegraph what you’re going to do.

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The trick is that, for set play, the timing only helps the offensive player make sure their setup is tight. As the defense, you have no idea whether I will press jump HP or jump MK in that above setup, even if you know I’m about to do something tricky. So it telegraphs that I’m about to try “something” but it doesn’t help you figure out what that thing is.

And if you want to get really deep into stuff like this, if you know your opponent is smart and understands the threat of set play, it opens him up a lot to empty jump command grab (because he will respect your set play and most likely try to block instead of flail). And while I don’t recommend people try this, I’ve had a fair bit of success against good players whiffing “random” normals to fake set play in games like SF4. My whiffed normals have no rhyme or reason, and my setup is far from safe, but it can convince good players to simply not challenge your initial attack after wakeup, because they don’t want to dare getting hit by some hokeydoke setup by this random player who probably studied a spreadsheet.

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For heavy command grab, you can get a OTG, which opens up all of the setups that I listed on the chart above. Otherwise, I have some other stuff that isn’t tight:

Slight delay > F+MK > St.HK
Can catch jump and backdash, plus on block. What’s hard is that with St.HK, you only (haha) have a 2 frame window to catch both jump/backdash options.

Slightly longer delay > St.MK (whiff) > Heavy command grab
There’s a spot where if you press St.MK, it’s too late for an OTG, and too early for a meaty, but gives you enough time to get a grab. Very often my opponent will either try to break it or say “pfft, this idiot doesn’t know his meaties”, try to press buttons to punish, then get grabbed. I feel like a jerk when it works (which is pretty often).

Heavy command grab is kinda limited to jump/backdash setups, and maybe a safe jump. Light command grab is better for safe jumps and ambiguous crossups.

I have a few setups for Shadow command grab (which I think are the most important), but I’ll post those later.

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Not whiffing also introduces a ton of dead time, and nobody can feel out the timing for a set up that long.

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Yea the setups get weird because raam throws different characters different distances. Fulgore for example is always going to get crossed up after lp cmd grab > fMK

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The whiff s.mk > heavy cmd grab is also pretty useful if you mess up s mk after hkd ender, which ive done an embarrassingly high amount of times. Helps to salvage mess ups.

Though that was the general gist of what you were saying already, just good to keep it in mind since hkd ender is a bit fast and prone to the occasional miss.

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I also found out that for the ambiguous cross-up, the one that hits in front also safe jumps Jago’s DP. It’s weird how so many of RAAM’s setups beat the DP-est DP in the game.

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well damn you’re right, jago just goes right under him. That’s kinda huge.

However, note that it doesn’t translate to fulgore, and most other setups wont either. He lands so close that you can s mk without movnig ater lp command grab

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Shadow Command Grab setups!

I’m going to refer back to the graphic I made earlier:

You can achieve the desired output of all of these setups on a Shadow command grab. So when I say ‘Option 1B’, I mean it’s a heavy Stab that’ll catch jump and backdash. I’ve found some tight setups, but I didn’t feel like doing another diagram.

Option 1A: Shadow Grab, forward jump, Cr.MP (whiff), St.MK

Option 1B: Shadow Grab, forward jump, forward dash, Heavy Stab

Option 2/Option 3. : Shadow Grab, forward jump, St. MK (whiff), Heavy Grab

Meaty Kryll Shield: Shadow Grab, F+MK, St.HP (whiff), Kryll Shield (no charge).
I didn’t know that Kryll Shield was +8 on block. I also didn’t know that it staggers on counter hit, even if uncharged. So this will give a nice basic frame trap/easy confirm on top of everything else.

In the first three setups, you can replace the forward jump with a neutral jump if you don’t want to switch sides or accidentally cross yourself up for your forward dash. However, Option 1A might be out of range to catch backdash in this case. Doing a forward jump just adds a little bit more to think about.

Of course, you can also do an OTG to lead to all of the other setups I listed, or do a flipout.

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