Sadira versus Gargos

same here i play hisako too now. much easy win than with sadira and less work too.:smiley:
take time to look at lechatnoirduxbl streams you can learn alots

Worst MU in the game? I’d guess one of Raam’s, though from what I understand Glacius is a marginally better fight than against Kan-Ra. Could be wrong here though - @SithLordEDP?

Sadira has to fight Gargos grounded, it’s just one of those immutable facts of life. And it’s probably one of those fights where in all honesty one character just has to work harder than the other, which isn’t fun, but is a part of fighting games. That’s basically how I feel whenever I’m fighting against a good Riptor :joy:

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Curious when you guys say “worst match up,” do any of you think that the matchups are so bad and so unbalanced that any of them should be looked at by the devs?

Don’t get me wrong. I know that counter picking exists and some characters are simply going to have bad matchups. I get that and I’m obviously 100% fine with it.

But are any of these matchups that feel uneven a symptom of a character’s struggles against a whole archetype? Separate question, I know, but it goes to the main question in a sense.

BTW, I’m not asking rhetorically. I’m genuinely curious. As someone with an utterly terrible Sadira, I’ve played a decent amount of Gargos matchups and while I try to stay on the ground, I still can’t help but wonder if Sadie’s having some sort of existential crisis while sitting in the far corner, blocking shadow portal punches, wondering what it’s all about lol.

Is the matchup a “joke” as Kalypso indicates, or is that hyperbole, or should he be employing a more grounded strategy and how truly viable is that?

Sorry, I know it’s a lot of questions. I’m not trolling for buffs here, I swear, but I do wonder (again, not rhetorically) if some of the matchups in the game are lopsided enough to go beyond “git gud” and in to the realm of, if not the exact category of “no character should be a ‘joke’ matchup against any other character.” Curious what you guys think.

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This is an interesting point to be brought up, but honestly I believe that there will always be cases where this sort of matchup is a borderline inevitability. Sometimes kits just don’t play nice, it happens. Sadira v. Gargos is an interesting case, because Sadira is something of an outlier w/in her archetype (what I guess you could call the ‘ninja’ archetype, ala Strider or Ibuki), and Gargos doesn’t fit w/in any traditional archetypal mold. While Sadira doesn’t necessarily have “the tools to beat Gargos,” it’s less her kit and more habits/tendencies of her playerbase that make the matchup so brutal. Having to be airborne to utilize disjoint certainly doesn’t help her, but I think the matchup is so horrendous because Sadira players feel like they just HAVE to jump ALL THE TIME. If they can knock it off and play grounded against him until they score a knockdown, the matchup should even out considerably - once she knocks him down she’s free to run that dirty wakeup game she’s got and make him guess himself to death.

RE: The Kalypso question - at the risk of being flamed cuz how dare I question the wisdom of a top player, I think that was largely hyperbole. Sure, Sadira is one of Gargos incredibly few winning MU’s, if Sadira players can play the matchup correctly it shouldn’t be any worse than 5.5:4.5, and it’s definitely not as bad as ANY of RAAM v. Zoner MU’s, not by a mile. A joke? Absolutely not. The joke is that expression, and it’s unfortunate that that’s the attitude our top reps choose to take (well, he don’t rep me, I don’t play Sadira, but in a more general sense you get what I’m saying).

RE: Symptoms of a character struggling v. an archetype - True, classical “demon-wall” grapplers will ALWAYS struggle against dedicated zoning and multi-directional mobility (especially teleports). In this sense, RAAM will have a good pile of seriously losing MU’s, and that’s okay. That’s just a byproduct of archetypal interactions (all through FG history, really), and the “solutions” (buffing the grappler to evenly handle the zoners, or nerfing the zoners cuz they’re mean to the grappler) would offset the power of either for the rest of the cast in ways that are bad for the game overall. The truth is that bad MU’s are okay sometimes, and the sooner we as a community accept that, the sooner we can get to leveling up - it’d be better for us all.

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This line of thinking is a bit off. Even if sadira does have a really bad matchup vs gargos…bad matchups are just a thing that happens. Learn multiple characters, be prepared to counterpick. Not like you’re looking at a small number of characters that counterpick him :stuck_out_tongue:

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No, I don’t believe KI has any “broken” MU’s, not across the entirety of the cast. While I’d say that Gargos/Sadira is probably a 6-4 (and maaaaaybe a 7-3, though I doubt it), that’s still not indicative of a “broken” fight.

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Honestly, I do think Gargos will evolve, no matter what. I’ve played fighting games since the dawn of their creation and I’ve never seen an archetype like his, where a character can summon other characters to fight for them, other than having an alt character as a special move, such as Jill Valentine summoning a zombie during a fight, but even then it’s just a timed attack of which goes away.

Gargos though can summon (with meter) two alt characters that can stay on the screen as long as you let them. This does create interesting variables that can be hard to deal with. I always thought it would be good to have the Summons get stunned IF you combo Gargos. However, this subject deserves a thread of its own.

I know I have my gripes as a Sadira main, but as has most have said, much of that is stuff I’ll have to live with and adapt to. It’s also prudent to specialize more than just one character.