I’m not a Sadira main but I got inspiration comparing her to Maya. I would say take away her other damage ender, maybe, she doesn’t really need it unless people actually find use for it.
For her new ender, is her Heavy Widow Bite like Mantis, make it grab and cashout like mantis except Sadira rides them to the ground (not a hard knockdown) This would also give her a shadow cashout in air which I think fits her really well. Obviously damage would be scaled per the recent cash out nerfs.
Wouldn’t require many if any animation changes, just different properties. I find when I do play Sadira I rarely use the shadow widow bite while in air unless I have Instinct.
This is just an idea Don’t razz me too hard lol
Just doesn’t seem fair that the official juggler of KI doesn’t have a meterless air cashout when Maya does and she isn’t a juggle focus character.
Since you’d take away her traditional damage ender then this new ender shouldn’t be scaled like Mantis recently was. Sadira would do very little damage in combos and juggles without meter as her other enders are most certainly not damage enders.This is a cool idea though.
I’m aware, but this change doesn’t really go outside any boundary already enstated in KI. A meterless juggle cashout in S1 would have sounded insane since it was unbreakable. But this is now S3, Maya’s juggles are half projectile and unbreakable, our dear spider doesn’t have that luxury so as far as this change, it would only solidify her as the juggle queen she was intended to be. It wouldn’t up her damage a whole lot, it would just make it a teensy bit easier to fish for that ender because right now. You know when the ender is coming, you know when you can risk a break, and that makes it harder for Sadira. Cinder has easier juggles than Sadira does, a recap and a dp as well as projectile zoning both grounded and airborn like Maya. She just needs that little edge to bring her back where she belongs. She has dirty mixups if she is in the air but aside from that she is weak against good pressure. Cinder and Maya both have Dp’s to help them.
@ZTRAINOVER9000 I only said maybe take it away Depends on how the juggle cash out would be implimented. Her juggles are breakable almost through and through. So the damage could be less scaled than Maya’s mantis but all we have is speculation for now.
Her current damage ender is my bread and her shadow damage ender is my butter. I notice alot of Sadira’s don’t use her damage ender however it’s my personal go to for enders with her. Plus the level 4 one is just awesome to watch. I dig your idea tho.
Exactly, Cinder has what… 4 ways to get you airborn in neutral with one of them being a dp. Sadira has only 3 and they are pretty risky. Yes She plays more from the air than Cinder but he can use weird approach angles too. I know they probably don’t want to change her but, we saw a lot of characters at KIWC and I think Sadira actually wasn’t one of them. Unless it was off Stream I don’t remember seeing her.
I agree that I think that Sadira needs a bit more umf to her punches, but I don’t think changing her Damage Ender would resolve these matters. Never overlook the gift that is a hard knockdown. Sadira has multiple options to strike after one and that can’t be overlooked.
In terms of launching an opponent, she can juggle off a throw (Cinder can’t unless you are tagged with a Pyro bomb), off her Launcher Ender, off Shadow Recluse, off her target combo, off her combo trait. So she has more than enough ways to get the other player air born, if needs be.
In truth, the real problem with Sadira is that she has evolved into an extremely technical character, and in order to do amazing damage, you have to work REALLY hard. She is amazing and I have more people RQ on my because of her than other other character I play (I actually had a guy accuse me of only using her because she is S Tier. )
A lot of people have moved away from her because other characters can do really great damage without all the crazy tech.
The only thing that I would change with Sadira is give her a bit more bite, but that would be it.
I suppose I cross compared her ways to get people in air to Throw, HK Neutral, Command string and Trait which all involve HK, and Shadow Recluse but I also didn’t compare easy options. Recluse isn’t a DP, Fire Flash is +1 Cinder. Command String, Her’s can only end on HK, Cinder can change his to be safer +1 Cinder, Better Air zoning control +1 Cinder. That’s kinda how I looked at it. She has options to get someone in the air, his are just worlds easier. So she should be rewarded more for getting someone in air, and I’m not saying remove her damage ender, I just rarely ever use it since I’d rather have a setup for her unless I’m taking a round. Little bit more damage and a Juggle Cash out in air I think would make her more accessible without breaking her really. I mean Maya can do it and has a DP. Yes it requires her daggers but still, it isn’t hard if you’ve optimized your strings to not have them.
Then again people always give me crap because my main is Fulgore… I’ve mained him since the Snes days when he was literally bottom tier worst in game hands down lol… I saw a tier list for the Snes and everyone was an 8/10 or better where Cinder was at a 15 and Fulgore was a 4… Only his normals were safe sometimes… That was it. But I still played the hell out of him lol.
I’m kinda curious… Do people use shadow bite a ton? I know it’s relatively damaging, but I don’t see a ton of utility for it. Maybe that’s just me though. I think it would be kinda cool if it had some sort of uniquely useful property, like having it take the opponent to the ground for extra damage than what it currently does.
Though this obviously comes at the expense of being an opener, I think it’d be cool to give her a damaging, more or less ranged throw that puts the opponent on the ground and her close to them. Not sure what the downside would have to be if it’s blocked, or if there should be any given that she’d be wasting a stock of meter.
As for her damage ender, I really hope that they make some adjustments to it, as it seems rather redundant as it is right now, or at the very least, not entirely useful.
Sure, when you have no meter, it does damage and puts you next to the downed opponent. But is that enough of a reason to prefer it the way you’d prefer a normal damage ender for anyone else, especially given the advantages she gets from her other enders?
I said this in another thread already, but I don’t think that they can buff the damage on her damage ender much more, at least to the point where I’d choose to use it over, say shadow recluse. I also don’t think that they should nerf shadow recluse to make her damage ender more useful. Do that and you’re just robbing peter to pay paul.
So to that end, and I mentioned this already in another thread, I’d like to see them give her some type of compelling reason to use her damage ender that goes beyond damage.
I suggested giving her either a one time use special move (her ultra ender kick) which could do big two Sadira throws + single throw PD’s worth of damage, it would wallsplat, and actually recapture an airborn opponent if both you and the opponent are close enough to the wall that you splat them off of. The trade off would be that it’s very slow to come out, it’s one time use, and its exceedingly minus on block. Also, the move would scale on recapture.
Guessing that’s a bit too far out there for most people. So for something simpler, I’d suggest either giving her a one time use instinct web or simply making it a hybrid damage / battery ender and giving her some meter back.
Either way, giving Sadira an air throw makes sense to me, as she’s supposed to be one of the more air dominant characters. Being able to throw from distance with her webs would be pretty cool provided it’s not too overpowering. I’d personally rather see that than have shadow web used as an ender to cash out damage.
I also think that her damage ender needs some changes and hopefully IG will look in to that. It’s not so much that she’s a bottom tier character, because she’s still viable. But it just seems like there’s more that could be done with her moveset to both bump her up a notch and add some utility to a few of her moves, hopefully without making her insanely OP.
I don’t think she needs a recap, she already has flipout, combo from throw, her damage ender is the variable. Yes, it serves a purpose, but her setup enders are just too good. So why not give her the damage where she gets it, in the air. I see people juggle with maya off an ender, into a mantis combo. Sadira should be able to do that type of thing too, except rather than a short juggle into jump cash out, this one you could do one chances in air. Target combo into ender for an air to air trade if you read it right. Takes you down to the ground. I wouldn’t give it the HKD property though, it shouldn’t be a setup ender. That’s what recluse is for. Damage would be small but it gives her the threat in the air that she deserves to have. I fear Cinder in the air more than her. She has to be spaced properly to poke you with blades, Cinder can just throw globs at random angles from any distance and almost guarantee they stick. I like the idea, I think it would give her the edge she needs to make some combo’s confirmable. Since landing to the ground to shadow recluse requires just that. Doing a juggle that allows you to beat your opponent to the ground. That’s not always an easy thing which puts a barrier on her prior to expert level play. I don’t think it would fish more damage out of her than she already does, I don’t think it would make her execution on juggles any less and lastly I don’t think it would really effect her ultimate goal and neutral since it would be a choice ender not being a setup ender. Recluse still serves all purposes, the other one just gives you a way to take both you and your opponent to the ground for a little bit of damage.
Yeah, I’m mainly just trying to find something that would make the damage ender worth using beyond the hard knockdown. Obviously the recap that I’m talking about is extremely situational. More so than all other recaps (which are, themselves, somewhat situational in terms of availability).
If the idea of a recap makes it seem like she’d be OP, I’d say what I just said above, but also, she’s currently viewed as somewhat underpowered in terms of damage and combos would certainly scale with this recapture, but if you don’t like it, that’s fine. The recap idea was a bit of a stretch.
My original idea was more to simply have the ultra ender kick as both a powerful move and a wallsplat that allowed for following up, but I probably got carried away.
I know it’d probably be hell to balance with recapture ability, but I’ve always thought that she’d be a great candidate for having a recap. Being able to launch an opponent, recap, and maybe end the combo by kicking them back in to the air for more silliness always sounded cool to me, and she’d be the only character that could do that, which I think would go a long way in redefining her as the air attack character.
I’m definitely not opposed to this idea. I should’ve made that clear before. Shadow bite has some damage to it, but otherwise, as a move itself, I don’t find it to be a particularly good use of meter, so I like the idea of having it cash out damage.
I also love the idea of a heavy bite that takes both you and the opponent to the ground, like mantis, and cashes out damage. I’m assuming this would be an advantage ender? Or did you want this to be her damage ender? Or something new?
I’m not sure how much I love the idea of heavy bite behaving like mantis and also cashing out damage and what not. Shadow bite? Sure, because there’s a trade-off of costing meter. But regular heavy bite? I dunno. That feels awfully powerful for a move that you can get anywhere on the screen if the opponent’s not blocking, and if it has mantis’ properties, I guess blocking wouldn’t even matter.
Plus, and call me crazy, but I like heavy bite as a sort of combo-breakable air throw of sorts and the properties it currently has. Are there any circumstances where you’d want her heavy bite to behave the way it does currently? Just curious.
Either way, I’m on definitely on board for the shadow bite version, but in saying that, I’d have to disagree with the following:
I get that her damage ender is lacking in utility, I completely agree there, hard knockdown or no, but she’s already a bit light on enders compared to other characters. I don’t like the idea of her losing one, even if it means gaining one someplace else. So while I love what you’re doing with shadow bite, I’d prefer that they keep this and tweak it to make it worth doing.
They could honestly lessen the damage on it if they made it more worth my time. If they turned it in to a battery ender or made it a hybrid battery / damage ender, or gave me a one time use web or the ultra ender kick (without recap, if you prefer)… Just something that makes me want to do this move as opposed to her other great setup enders.
If anything, I think it’d be nice to make it a battery / hard knockdown ender and have shadow bite be her damage ender. That way, her current damage ender becomes more of a way of gaining meter for both shadow recluse and shadow bite.
I still love the idea of her being able to use her ultra ender kick as a regular special move, but that’s just me wanting bigger move lists for the earlier season one characters, so feel free to ignore me on that lol.
Widow Bite behaving like mantis cashing out damage but scaled meterless and having it as a shadow cash out in air as well. Sometimes relying on Recluse requires insane reaction and spacing. It could be an advantage ender, but not a HKD. Like leave her +2 or 3 on quick rise similar to Raam Flipout from grab on the non meter version. Meter version should be neutral. Keep her old damage ender too. Maybe make it a little faster? Not sure how I feel about the battery part of it though. Just the idea of her having an arial cash out both non shadow and shadow I feel would give her back her uniqueness. Right now she is basically a harder execution Maya or Cinder. That’s how she feels to me. I feel that Cinder is a direct counter to her solely because he has a true DP and she doesn’t. She can’t stop his air approach unless timed specifically, he can and meterless to boot.