Sabrewulf Season 3 Rebalance Thread

Characters Sabrewulf
21

I honestly don’t think it is that bad. So excited to use flipout, MIXUPS will be amazing!

Keits says Flipout with Saberwulf is really good, so I’d like to see how crazy He can be. If he has crazy mixup potential, along with Season 2 Damage, I’d think he’d be too OP, IMO. More ways to open up an opponent, while sacrificing some damage seems like a good balance.

Imagine if Kan Ra with his crazy MIXUPS had Saberwulf’s Instinct damage…

22

This is generally how I use is s.HK

First time I’m demonstrating that I can be stuffed for throwing out a button when I’m -1 after L.Ragged Edge. Second time I show how I can actually reverse and crush that counter poke by throwing out s.HK

There are risks associated with doing this, but I think that stagger buff will now make it worth it.

23

Wulf absolutely had to lose the damage in instinct buff - he was nigh unbreakable before, and got to freestyle combos into nearly guaranteed kills. Instinct should be strong, but it shouldn’t be “you got touched, so now your entire lifebar is gone”. It’s the same rationale behind nerfing Sadira’s instinct webs to not scale KV so much and damage nerfs across the board. Wulf gets a lot off his instinct - he didn’t need the damage. 30 additional frames of recovery is a lot, but I think we’ll find out that feral cancels are still really, really, good.

I actually think Wulf has an awful lot of potential now with flip out resets - those things are going to be DISGUSTING. The faster runs will also help him out a lot in his bad MU’s. A lot of divekicks in KI don’t hit overhead, so I don’t think his diving move being a mid is such a bad thing. It will move him forward a goodly amount and leave him around neutral. That’s not a terrible move to add to his repertoire.

He definitely got hit hard, but I think IG gave him some really good tools as well. Probably a lower floor on the character now, but the ceiling didn’t move all that much IMO.

1 Like
24

A nice side effect of running uppercut having adjusted block and recovery frames.

So currently if you FC a Running Uppercut, you are probably going to be just as - on block. The recovery of the move is so low that the FC startup frames are really just as much.

Given the amount they tacked on, FC-ing this on block should make it nice and + on Feral Cancel. This is pretty good since it’s one of Wulf’s fastest startup moves that get him going forward. Currently my Feral Cancel “get in” strategy is Heavy Ragged Edge into FC, but now I’ll have the additional advantage of using Running Uppercut as well.

25

I agree that now flip-out is gonna be Wulfs go to for mix ups. I also think if they plan to keep his overhead as slow as it is right now, they should at least make it a little safer (maybe -3 or -4).

I don’t even play Wulf and I think the nerfs where a bit much. Also, has anyone realized that from S1->S2 and from S2->S3 Wulf got hit hardest with nerfs both times?

2 Likes
26

Yeah, 20 frame leaping slash, I gotta wonder if they kept it unsafe. It now has the speed of Jago’s neck-cutter except on block we are screwed lol.

27

It’s probably because Hamstring is so good (and now, comes off a faster run AND goes farther). Hamstring is unsafe, but it’s basically the best low move in the game now? I imagine whiff punishing with it will off the HK run will be super serious.

Jago doesn’t really have a low to complement his overhead from the ranges that Wulf can threaten from.

28

Hamstring’s range already far exceeded that of Leaping Slash.

Per esempio:

They could double (hell, tripple) the range of Jago’s Neck Cutter, but it wouldn’t change the fact that, if I’m out of range of that cr.MK, then there’s no reason for me to block low. So there would be no reason to nerf Jago’s cr.MK at the expense of an increased Neck Cutter range, because the increased Neck Cutter range does not indirectly benefit cr.MK in a way that needs to be counter-balanced.

If, conversely, they increased the range of Leaping Slash and kept the range of Hamstring, then it would make sense- at leastwith that reasoning. Hamstring as a mid crush is awesome, but it’s value as a mixup doesn’t come from its range.

I think their reasoning was they wanted to tilt Wulf from the direction of a mixup character, to a pressure character. I mean, cr.LK, s.LK, and Overpower, they’re untouched. Feral Cancels won’t be as good at giving infinite manuals, but they’re pretty unaffected as far as they boost Wulf’s insane frame-trap game. They left his frametraps alone, and nerfed his mixup potential. The changes appear to have this meta-narrative.

I’ve always played a frametrap heavy style Wulf though, so I’m not very disturbed by this.

29

It seems that way. From season 1 to 2 I was okay with the changes “nerfs”. Although I wished they kept his back dash. Now season 2 to 3 IMO Wulf is no longer a rushdown character.

I don’t study frame traps or any technical aspects I just play for fun. I’ve mained wulf since KI first came out many years ago, played him with SNES, N64, up to XBOX. I didn’t play him for damage I played him because I liked the character; he was straight forward, feral, savage, fast, crazy , best part he’s a werewolf. As a casual player will probably play the game even less now. Maybe season 3 will have true rush down character.

1 Like
30

Thank you. One of the reasons I don’t play Wulf despite really liking him. As an outsider, I constantly hear his name in connection with nerfs.

2 Likes
31

I’ll bet. If I had a teleport backdash I’d want to keep it too :laughing:

32

It’s not always a good thing to backdash outside of your effective range

33

I’m personally okay with the changes. Flip Out will now be Wulf’s primary method of antagonizing opponents, and its going to be dangerous with his faster runs and dash mixups. I’m gonna be using the Diving Slash as a fake out most of the time, go over or land just in front like Omen’s air dash. Feral Cancel being slowed down is a little bit of a bummer but its still quite potent in itself. The damage nerfs make sense when considering everyone else’s, its a more level playing field. I’m pretty sure this isn’t the end of balancing, I’m sure there’s some real nasty stuff to figure out with him and once someone does, back come the cries of “NERF! NERF! NERF!”

34

So, sign me up for the “not a Wulf player, concerned about the nerfs” club.

I mostly don’t care about the damage – I think Wulf ought to hit hard, but it has gotten a bit scary how efficiently the top Wulf players at the World Cup could make a life bar melt. Instead I have two main concerns:

  1. I always felt that jumping slash was almost the reason to play Wulf, so pushing its startup into reactable territory seems huge. He’s a hard rushdown character, which means he should have access to an unreactable mixup, right? I mean, he can frame trap a bit, I guess, but not to the extent that Jago or Fulgore can. Being able to force his opponents to guess earlier makes sense in lieu of being able to test an opponent’s patience over a longer string and catch them off-guard, which I just don’t see Wulf doing. Also, a reactable, unsafe mixup just rubs me the wrong way. I guess the hope is that the improvements to his neutral game will offset the nerfs to his pressure, but I’m not seeing it, and I also don’t think that’s what Wulf is about.
  2. I take the point about casuals being underwhelmed by Wulf’s instinct. Even with the damage increase in season 2, we had people complaining that his instinct was too boring, useless and/or technical for lower-level players to get anything out of. Obviously in the hands of someone who knows what they’re doing it’s a contender for best instinct in the game right now, and the nerfs aren’t that bad competitively, but the nerfs strip out one of the few perceptible benefits of instinct for lower-level players who can barely understand “you can use it to make jumping slash safe on block”, which seems bad when you consider that Wulf is often suggested as a beginner character.

But again, I’m not a Wulf player. I’m also still digesting the rebalance as a whole, but it strikes me that as a Jago player I barely batted an eyelid at most of Jago’s nerfs (and we got some significant toys), whereas Wulf’s changes by comparison seem to substantially nerf him in some absolutely key areas areas and don’t really appear to make up for it in others.

3 Likes
35

Isn’t that Shadow Jago that has a teleport backdash though?

1 Like
36

A lot of the ppl claiming they need the damage dont use feral cancel. Maybe this will open them up to using it? I never see anyone online using feral cancel…no ones shadow either. they need to because its sick… well now it has a cool down so IDK…we shall see

37

Yes, Shago actually DOES have a teleporting backdash. But Saberwulf’s original S1 backdash went so far and so fast that people often referred to it a “teleport backdash.” He could string them together and cover ridiculous amounts of space in very little time. I once had a Wulf outrun a Sadira blade demon done on his wakeup just from repeated backdashes :unamused: It was actually pretty ridiculous.

38

Oh wow I didn’t think it was that good. I figured that was just normal being the type of character he is. Riptor can run backwards, S. Jago can teleport, I think even Hisako has a farther backdash as well. Wulf looks like he just hops backwards. Doesn’t seem fitting for a werewolf. Maybe IG should change the animation.

1 Like
39

I would be one of those people that don’t use feral cancel…:frowning: When I did play online most Wulf’s I fought didn’t use it either. I never understood it and don’t think it’s useful. The only people I saw use it efficiently were of course the high level players. I saw one guy in tournament I think his name is Flash? Wow, just wow! With those fecal cancels and the juggling! I guess for the pros its a good tool to use.

40

You should use it…2x per match! GO tot he Max twitch page…watch the archive or My God in the top 8 and just watch how he uses it.

Its no different than using instinct cancel to save you on block or whiff… use it and attack low or dash across… your opponent wont know what hit em… you need to learn this and utilize it before S3 drops…that way you are ready becasue you are going to need it now more than ever